If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

Employers will be looking closely at those who will use every excuse not to go back to the office.

Employees will be looking closely at those who will use every excuse not to trust their employees to deliver, not to offer flexibility, and who persist with an outdated level of micro managing control freakery.

to answer a query on Teams that I would have previously asked and got an immediate response. I made one major fuck-up that I wouldn't have done if I had been able to ask someone else to just glance over it for me, as I would have in the office but I think most people find it much harder to ask those 'can I just double-check...' questions when it requires booking in a Zoom call than when the person is a desk away.

That’s really bad management you’re suffering from there unfortunately. You’re not being supported adequately.

In my work some mistakes would be catastrophic. We are encouraged to check decisions and everything we’re doing that either we are not quite sure about or has some risk, with the next level/s up.

Phone calls and instant messaging must be responded to immediately (or as soon as a meeting finishes, all meetings being visible in our calendars). Anyone not responding adequately is being pulled up. More communication is being encouraged.

If you’re new then someone should be checking in with you every day and supporting you by offering to review anything you’re not sure about.

I agree it wasn't ideal, and this was quite early days of lockdown when we were all adjusting and when our workload suddenly massively went up because there was a huge amount of directly Covid-related work. The situation was also changing day by day and that made things really hard in a way that I think was unique to that situation. I'm quite senior and experienced in adjacent areas, though, so there was no expectation of constant checking in, just as there wouldn't have been in the office - but I think that no one, including me, realised how much 'informal' double-checking and just overhearing something in passing and going 'hang on, is that also going to impact on X?' when no one had thought about X there was in our office before, and how hard that was to replicate. It's got a lot better but I do think it's an issue that very established staff barely noticed and others really suffered from.

I do find the not responding to queries infuriating - this mostly isn't direct colleagues but adjacent teams - but since our workplace survey said that 'being able to concentrate without interruptions' was the most frequently chosen 'upside' of WFH I think a lot of people feel very justified in ignoring queries that they would previously have dealt with because it's 'prioritising' and 'more efficient' - I wonder how many of the 'I'm just so much more effective at home!' people on MN fall into this category!

I find that in practice it's much harder to ask via these ways if it's people that you don't already know well, and that most people would set the threshold much higher before they decided they 'need' to ask.

I see that point, but that’s because your company needs a bit of a mind shift, because it’s new to them. That just wouldn’t be an issue where I work, perhaps because we all worked in different offices anyway. It’s completely normal where I am to have an online conversation with someone who I have never met in the US or Germany etc that will only last a few seconds to clarify something. Things like that don’t need a scheduled meeting. All staff have lists of expert people they can ask for help at any point.

"If you’re new then someone should be checking in with you every day and supporting you by offering to review anything you’re not sure about"

Yes, they should and whilst it's possible to do it remotely, it's much easier for management to make sure it's happening when everyone's in the office.

WFH is socially isolating.

Some people clearly aren't worried about that.

You can't just ring someone on Zoom for a short inane conversation.

Knowing and understanding your colleagues is vital for an effective team. We have people who work in other offices and also who rarely come in - and it's clear that there are issues caused by communication that just wouldn't happen if we were all in one building. Things build up and become issues that wouldn't have happened if we'd all been together.

As someone said - you pick up a lot from non verbal cues, body language etc - which can't be replicated via Zoom.

Yes, they should and whilst it's possible to do it remotely, it's much easier for management to make sure it's happening when everyone's in the office.

But where I work, all training is done remotely (with real people, not an online training course) anyway - as the offices are spread everywhere. You would get checked in on every day and offered support at any time. You would spend every day for weeks with a trainer.

You can't just ring someone on Zoom for a short inane conversation

Of course you can. My colleagues and I call each other for a chat when we feel like it.

Where I work it's not possible to all be in work and to socially distance at all. We have two open plan offices crammed full of desks. In the week before lockdown 5 of us in one office got sick with cv. Luckily we have jobs where we are in and put a lot or it could have been 20 of us. So, currently, they def dont want us all in as they dont want a big outbreak with half the staff going off.
Even if having everyone in is the key to productivity in normal times, that doesnt mean its do straightforward now.

My colleagues and I call each other for a chat when we feel like it

Not a chat - just a few comments..not worthy of a phone call.
You can't see when someone is focussed on a task - whereas in the office, it's much easier to pick up on verbal cues, pick a right time

And to bond.

@ZoeTurtle

You can't just ring someone on Zoom for a short inane conversation

Of course you can. My colleagues and I call each other for a chat when we feel like it.

Presumably though, these are colleagues with whom you have already built up a relationship 'in real life', ie, not via Teams?

If you were starting out in a new job - or even starting your whole working life - would you feel comfortable about casually calling a colleague you had never met for a quick chat about non-work stuff? I certainly wouldn't.

Most people who are currently WFH are doing so with colleagues they have already built up a working relationship with. That's very different from a situation where people only 'know' each other via Zoom calls. But if WFH becomes the norm long-term, that's what will happen, and it will be very tough for a lot of people.

@Aridane

the latest research is showing nine tenths of those now wfh want to continue

WTAF?!

I hope that is incorrect and / or misreported

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53942542

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-working-lockdown-coronavirus-office-grant-shapps-boris-johnson-a9693051.html

New research has found that nine out of 10 people in the UK who have worked from home during the coronavirus lockdown want to continue doing so.

It comes as the government plans to launch a campaign to reassure the public that the workplace is safe and help people avoid crowded public transport to get them back into the office.

The report, titled ‘Homeworking in the UK: before and during the 2020 lockdown’, is the first to analyse survey data focused on working from home during the pandemic.

I know my work colleagues.
I know when they are having a good day. A bad day. Issues at home, things they are looking forward to, what makes them tick, what issues they have, what pushes their buttons, their strengths, weaknesses and what motivates them.

I know that if someone is upset, what the issues could be. I know how to communicate with them.

I've been there for 3 years and worked closely with them on projects, supporting them, training them, etc. Plus a lot of chats in the office, learning about their lives etc. It's really helped me with my role and has helped the organisation.

It's much harder to know how people are now we aren't seeing them as much.

I have the occasional catch up chat with some colleagues who I am close to - but there are colleagues who I would talk to but not have a catch up chat.

If customer service is compromised and productivity is down then this needs addressing, probably by bringing everyone back to the office. However that should be the driving reason not to support the coffee shops and sandwich bars. Dh never used those kind of places anyway so would be really pissed of if that was cited as a reason to return.

I would say that my job is 30 per cent collaboration time and 70 per cent concentration time (technical work, lots of drafting which is lone work or reviewing others' hard copy work). I have found that WFH is a better balance for me, but ideally I would end up back in the office for equivalent to 1/2 days a week (but some weeks it could be coming in for meetings on more days than 1/2 and then heading home to do my concentration work - would be great if I could travel off peak and actually work on the train) and at home for the rest.

I think a mix is good and that is where we are likely to be heading.

And I think every job and industry will be different - there is no one size fits all.

I expect there to be more of these kinds of posts to not so subtly tell us to get back to work...

At the same time “they” are telling us that the the second wave will kill us all. Interesting.

Go to work in an office oh but here’s a second wave, it’s too dangerous to leave home. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Nobody is telling you a second wave is going to kill us all. Literally nobody.

• Any job which is mainly computer based and non physical can be outsourced including highly skilled roles.

My role is specialised and technical and I also have to be creative*

Mine too. And when DHs job moved - first a secondment to the US in 1989, then to a different part of the U.K. - we made WFH work. An internal 'outsourcing' if you will, but for skills retention not short term financial saving.

The point is, if you've got in-demand or niche skills and a good track record in employment then rather than being fearful of your job being taken by someone in the Netherlands, the increase in WFH happening around the world should open up more opportunities for you - and being a native Anglophone is a huge advantage.

I'm very aware there's a huge 'if' in there. But if people in the U.K. can get good jobs 'outsourced' from other countries, then that's all to the good.

MillyMollyFarmer - have you seen the Daily Mail or the Coronavirus forum?

I remember peak Covid back in April where people were “sobbing and shaking” because going to buy a chocolate bar made someone a “‘murderer.”

FluffyKittensinabasket The way yoor comment read to me, was that the people asking everyone to get back to work were the same ones saying a second wave is going to kill everyone. Some randoms on the daily mail and a parenting forum saying it doesn’t count. Daily mail says all kinds of crazy shit

Employers will be looking closely at those who will use every excuse not to go back to the office

I would prefer employers to look closely at people's work and not worry about where they are when they do the work. Quality and meeting deadlines matter, location does not.

Of course you can. confused My colleagues and I call each other for a chat when we feel like it.

I bet you wouldn't be calling for each other for a chat if you'd never met in person, I'm assume this colleague is a friend who you've met through work. In a few years time imagine millions of people all wfh who have never met and bonded with their colleagues in person. It will have huge ramification for society, we will all be a lot more isolated.

Well the government WILL change their tune when we are on lockdown again.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/matt-hancock-warns-uk-could-22596371.amp

The Health Secretary has said that nationwide restrictions to curb coronavirus cases cannot be ruled out this winter as a leaked SAGE report claims there could be 85,000 deaths in the UK this winter

Then it will be stay at home or you’ll die again.

I bet you wouldn't be calling for each other for a chat if you'd never met in person

You'd lose your bet with me. I've got quite a lot of colleagues I've never met. I had one manager a few years ago who I got on very well with - it was only sometime later when he'd left the company and sent me a LinkedIn invitation that I'd not had a clue what he looked like till then. (We didn't even have photos on our work profiles back then).

I don't disagree that wfh can be socially isolating - the problem at the moment imo is more that we can't easily socialise let alone make new connections with people who aren't colleagues.