If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

Sitting at a desk and eating a sandwich then commuting home is no great shakes.

Some will use the extra time to exercise if they want to.

But unemployment is not going to be caused by the majority of office workers WFH!

They just don’t realise they are going to become unemployed yet. A lot of people seem to be living in a bubble at the moment.

They just don’t realise they are going to become unemployed yet. A lot of people seem to be living in a bubble at the moment

This

We live in an inter connected economy. If demand for your product dries up, then working from home is not going to save you.

I’m pretty sure everyone knows that.

We live in an inter connected economy. If demand for your product dries up, then working from home is not going to save you.

on the other hand, the increase in demand for your product in the new economy will boost your role and prospect 🤷
Some sectors are already and obviously going to come out extremely well.

I know some posters are keen to imagine all WFH workers to suddenly become unemployed and broke, but thankfully their wishes have nothing to do with reality.

I don't know if some people have already got the boot, or are just jealous because their role is not possible from home (or both)!

Furlough ends in a few months time.

I think a lot of economic truths will come home to roost.

I don't know if some people have already got the boot, or are just jealous because their role is not possible from home (or both)!

I don’t know if it’s your intention, but you come across as quite dismissive and juvenile when you repeatedly call people concerned about job losses ‘jealous’. Why not deal with the content of what people are saying. All you’ve said so far really is that new jobs will be created and people will adapt. You don’t seem to understand how things work in reality and anyone trying to discuss that is referred to as ‘jealous’. I don’t know what of, having a secure job? That is so strange to say in this climate... but I guess if you’re not concerned about working class people in service jobs in the first place, you just won’t understand where people are coming from. The reality on the ground is different from what your privileged mind is imagining.

SantaClaritaDiet I rented for 18 years in London, I’m very aware. You saying low paid workers don’t live in London is WRONG. It’s factually wrong. It’s a ridiculous claim. Of course I’m aware about lack of affordable housing, having actually lived there. Do you live in London? Are you a low paid worker?

This thread is about working from home, yes. And we are discussing the impact of that on people on low incomes working around those who now want to work from home and are now losing the jobs without everyone in at work. What are you not following? We are all presently discussing the impact on everyone else of people en masse working from home. What bit is not relevant ffs

It's not about Pret in itself. It's about the low paid workers who will be made redundant when they go under.

Redistribution is fine - I'm really not wedded to the city centre - but these workers are not all going to go and open up sweet little independent cafes and sandwich shops.

I feel sorry for them; it's a scary time.

^ this is it. This is what we are talking about. Why are so many on this thread unconcerned? Have you not ever lost your job? Or been one month away from losing your home? Because there are millions in that position right now and there are no new jobs for them yet. Even in NZ, where I’m originally from, my sister is applying for jobs with 400-500 other applicants- a lot for nz and for what she does, a significant increase. This is happening all over the world. It’s very real. A bit of compassion would be nice... rather than calling those people jealous of your jobs and homes. We are all connected, what we do impacts others.

But unemployment is not going to be caused by the majority of office workers WFH!

Yes it is. Because of the industries that built up around everyone. It’s not just tea and sandwiches folks. It’s cleaners, bus drivers, train drivers, street cleaners, window cleaners... why the focus is only on coffee and food is beyond me. I think some just don’t realise the scale of unemployment that’s about to happen.

I think some just don’t realise the scale of unemployment that’s about to happen.

People do, but they don't feel that being forced back into work so they can feel a moral obligation to buy something or use a service they don't actually need to avoid redundancies is the way forward. I can't wait to get back into the office full time and so don't have an affinity for WFH, but it's unfair to keep calling people ignorant and priveledged when the vast majority of people wouldn't find a lengthy, expensive commute worth it just to be able to support sectors held up like a stack of cards, and would prefer some real change.

Prefer some ‘real change’ at the expense of millions of people who formerly serviced their every need during their working day being able to support themselves. To eat. To pay for their homes. What ‘real change’ are you even talking about? If you think your industry isn’t going to be affected by mass unemployment and increased taxes, you’re mad. The lack of concern for those losing their jobs, that’s what we are talking about... this lockdown wasn’t for me, I had it and I’m fine because I’m not at risk of anything serious. We jeopardised millions of jobs for certain people who were at risk. Most of us were never going to get sick. It was a moral obligation. But now it’s affected everyone, drastically, some more than others... and those losing jobs are being told hey, we just don’t like the commute, we’re gonna get local deliveries, if you want us we’ll be in the suburbs. Poverty kills you know.

I mean fuck. Let’s just not care about each other and bin the masks. I don’t need protecting and I’m claustrophobic.

We can't stick to outmoded ways of living or working just to protect certain jobs. It's ridiculous to force people to travel when they don't need to just so they can be provided with services and goods that they wouldn't need if they didn't travel in the first place.

If there is a major shift to working from home, and people are saving money by not buying lunches, travel cards, and office wear, that money is not going to go into a bank account and sit doing nothing. It will be spent on other things - home office equipment, home improvements, takeaways and snacks for the house, software that facilitates remote working.

All the empty offices won't sit empty. They'll be used for other purposes - housing, leisure, retail.

I'm not spending £30 a week on petrol anymore, but I'm spending more than £30 a week on books now I have three hours more in my day. I no longer buy lunch in the work canteen but I go to my local bakery.

The job market will adapt. Businesses will adapt. We can't cling to office working.

Fucking hell, plenty of people who are now working from home used to make their own way to work and take a packed lunch. And yes, personally I think it's preferable that local businesses stay afloat that benefit communities rather than city centres during office hours for companies that treat their employees like crap to make a quick buck. Of course redundancies are horrible, but can you not hear how ridiculous you sound? Expecting others, many who will be on low wages themselves, to somehow bare the responsibility and blame for keeping them afloat. My job is extremely secure though thanks for bringing it up

Also as has been said numerous times, plenty of people work in offices on industrial estates etc which don't have any amenities.

You bin the mask and catch the virus then Milly Maybe pass it onto a low paid worker as you buy a sandwich or take the bus. That'd learn us.

Also as has been said numerous times, plenty of people work in offices on industrial estates etc which don't have any amenities.

Yes, my last two jobs (big companies) have been like that. In one we had a visiting sandwich van, who could adapt to serve residential areas instead of business parks. In my current company there's a work canteen because there are no food places within walking distance.

Loneliness was already a thing prior to lockdown - amongst the young as well as the old.

I fear this is just going to exacerbate that.

My boss the other day when talking about those who were back in and those who weren’t cane out with

“Well it will make the redundancy decisions easier that’s for sure”

@Jay670

My boss the other day when talking about those who were back in and those who weren’t cane out with

“Well it will make the redundancy decisions easier that’s for sure”

And being close to the 'centre of power', the gossip, etc would give you a good heads up when things are happening, unlike when you are WFH and are out of the loop.

Porcupineinwaiting I’m making a point not stating an intention.

They just don’t realise they are going to become unemployed yet. A lot of people seem to be living in a bubble at the moment.

Very much so, the wfh life that many have been accustomed to I think has meant that they actually don't know what's going on out there - they aren't getting their daily chats and gossip in from people outside their immediate circle where you hear anecdotal things you might not otherwise hear. It is just a bubble of living at home with the partner and kids.

I have had to travel into London a fair bit the past few weeks and we are in for a grim few years, the amount of boarded up shops, businesses that used to be thriving and places you'd previously see thousands of people milling about but are now ghost towns is frightening. There is billions and billions of pounds being removed from the economy, millions of jobs removed - to think that won't have an effect on you because the industry you work in is currently plodding along fine is head in the sand stuff. It's going to be horrible once the knock on effects start happening.

I'm amazed that people don't think a huge portion of jobs can't be off-shored though and seem to only think in call centre terms. The company I work for has just made most of the finance, admin and support teams redundant and will be replacing them with people based in Eastern Europe. One of the accountants was earning 65k but will be replaced with someone in Poland who accepted the job for 15k - same qualifications and experience too. Recruitment sites like Toptal, Safeguard Global, Remoters, Yunojuno, etc make it a lot easier than it was before and ironically Brexit will make it far easier from a tax point of view.

I do think managerial roles, creative, sales, etc will be ok but those who sit on the support and cost-centre side of a business will be very much under threat from offshoring. Even small companies will be able to do it very easily going forward.

What worries me is that many of the people who are making the decisions about closing down offices and going wfh permanently are of the same mindset as many posting on this thread, i.e. I'm already jack so what's good for me is good for everyone else. They are usually senior and in the position to make that decision because they are older and at the stage of life where wfh suits them - married, kids, house with a garden, etc. There are millions of people out there, particularly in their 20s and 30s who live in flatshares or in tiny studio flats, where's the thinking about them? Also, and I realise that this is a parenting forum, so it is going to be swayed towards those who do prefer wfh because of the kids and being at the stage of life where they are very homely but this is still a novelty, we've barely been doing it for 6 months, have a think about what removing office life would be like after 3-5 years and what it will do to our society; how many of us have made a friend for life from working in an office? How many of us remember the great boss who steered our career in the right direction? The work colleague who set me up with my current partner/husband? The Christmas party where I had so much fun that I'll remember it for the rest of my life. I could go on but you get the gist, all that could be lost and I think that will be for the detriment of society overall, you just won't get that kind of bond between people from zoom, teams and phone-calls.

IT is already in India (and doesn't work).

Can’t see them lasting very long then.

@dementedma

I'm still WFH and hate it. Definitely not as productive, losing motivation,team bond beginning to unravel. It really isnt the answer for everyone

Not everyone but the latest research is showing nine tenths of those now wfh want to continue.

India is not the problem. There are plenty of places in the UK where people will do the same job for less.

Good. Let’s spread the wealth and opportunities round the country a bit.