If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

I wouldn't be surprised if many do the same about WFH sooner or later, no matter how much people talk of their sky-high 'productivity' here.

be surprised or not, ultimately it's down to numbers.
Much lower over-head, better -or same - financial results. It's very easy to see what works!

A cafe could not afford city centre rates deliving 3 quid coffees to homes in the suburbs.

you do know that the "suburbs" have coffee shops don't you
many have started to offer deliveries during the lockdown as it happens!

you do know that the "suburbs" have coffee shops don't you

What a shame you didn't bother to read my post - all 5 lines of it - before rushing off to post an idiotic grinning face.

This is what I wrote:

"Plus, there are cafes in most high streets so why would anyone bother getting a cold styrofoam coffee delivered from Costa in the town centre?"

So yes, thanks, I do know that there are cafes in the suburbs.

IcedPurple
wow, you sound very unhappy. I did read your post, but it made no sense so I chose to ignore that last part. HTH

"Doing the job from India"

Any employer can and should warn employees that is a risk, if they continue to resist WoH

However, it is absolutely NOK for an employers to try guilting their employees about not spending their money on other businesses
Especially if redundancy is being held over their heads, this may be the time to build up savings, not fritter away money

I think this is scaremonger tactic - surely there are tax implications for the company as well as potentially lower standards in foreign industry standard and education qualifications ect. It's trying to guilt people into paying 8 quid in pret for lunch over home working and work/life balance. I think a balance could be struck - or two days wFH, 3 days in the office. A happy employee is a more productive and loyal employee. Companies and the
Gov have to embrace the change in working practices and acceptance of technology that Covid has brought.

wow, you sound very unhappy. I did read your post, but it made no sense so I chose to ignore that last part.

If by 'chose to ignore' you mean - 'didn't bother to read so I could rush to post a moronic grinning face and continue with the patronising sneering I've been doing all thread' then fair enough.

@Bewareoftheblob

If your brother's team are not responding to customers on time, doesn't that mean that they are kind of chilling out on work time and thinking they won't be found out?

Personally, I have been more efficient at home despite having a toddler (we do have childcare for most of my hours) and my boss has noticed and praised this. I have been told that I will be WFH for foreseeable as will be heavily pregnant by the time they are planning a return - if I was able to WFH mostly after maternity leave I would be delighted, but I don't think it would be offered unless I was able to deliver the same client service or better, so I would be expected to come in for meetings and team sessions etc to ensure that the business is not missing out. That seems totally fair (and would mean I would be less likely to be replaced by someone abroad if flexible and offer face to face where needed!).

A business will do what works for them, not what their employees prefer

When a business has the same productivity, but gains savings on lease, utilities, insurance etc,
then they will move to WFH, regardless of whether that buggers up peoples' social lives

but if some or all work is better done on site, they will insist on this instead,
regardless of employees' commuting costs and longer times for childcare

@mbosnz

I think they're entitled to put their productivity, which after all pays their wages, ahead of your brother not liking the commute and spending more time at home with wife and child.

This! According to you Covid concerns isn’t even a reason he doesn’t want to go back!

A happy employee is a more productive and loyal employee

The OP's brother has himself admitted that he is less productive WFH however.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood

So they threatened to sack him and pay someone in a developing country less to do his job, and then asked if he feels guilty about impacts on the economy and people's livelihoods?

They sound fucking stupid as well as arseholes. I'd tell them to shove their job where the sun doesn't shine.

IcedPurple
maybe re-write your post because the one I was replying to still makes no sense... maybe I will be able to understand what on earth you were trying to say my dear

What we need is a return to parades of shops in the suburbs so that the majority of office workers can wfh instead (where they can fully). So, all the Costas and Prets move out of town and we can just pop out up the road for our cappuccino and sarnies. Large city centre office blocks can be turned into apartments.

Solves the problem of derelict local shopping areas and increases housing in one swoop. Companies have less fixed costs and overheads. No need for HS2. What's not to like?

A coffee costs a few quid. Add in a pastry and that's still probably not much more than a fiver. Going from home to home for a few quid a pop is not a viable business model. A cafe could not afford city centre rates deliving 3 quid coffees to homes in the suburbs. Plus, there are cafes in most high streets so why would anyone bother getting a cold styrofoam coffee delivered from Costa in the town centre?

You didn't read my post. My second line even says that they likely won't have high street businesses anymore. Why would they? They can do their job from home or a cheaper location. And other businesses have made it financially viable to them with just cake.

And if you can't figure out how to keep a drink hot until it gets to the consumer, then yes, your business is likely to fail. That's the easy part.

I disagree that customer services jobs can be done from India for example. I find it very difficult to phone an Indian call centre and actually get useful help. Their English may not be good, they fail to understand British figures of speech and metaphors, and they often don’t understand my strong regional accent (and they hang up on you if they don’t understand what you’re saying). Often when you try to explain the problem they don’t grasp what you’re asking for. I’m happy to pay extra to speak to a person whose first language is English, and many companies use this as a selling point.

Regarding WFH in general - the world has moved on and I find it unreasonable to try to reverse progress by making people return to offices. Especially when the reason given is that cafes are losing money! That’s like forcing people to keep burning coal just to keep the mines open.

The switch to Indian call centres was tried and abandoned by many companies including major banks and insurance companies who switched back to the UK after a huge fallout from customers.

@NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite

What we need is a return to parades of shops in the suburbs so that the majority of office workers can wfh instead (where they can fully). So, all the Costas and Prets move out of town and we can just pop out up the road for our cappuccino and sarnies. Large city centre office blocks can be turned into apartments.

Solves the problem of derelict local shopping areas and increases housing in one swoop. Companies have less fixed costs and overheads. No need for HS2. What's not to like?

Indeed. Trouble is it needs customers to actually buy locally rather than scoot off to the out of town supermarkets and online. Parades of shops rely on each other. We have several shops in our village, incl post office, bakery, Spar, butchers, pharmacy and chippie, which are also fed by a nursery school, hairdressers, and a few small offices (accountants, financial advisor, solicitor). Take one of the main shops away and they'll all fall down.

My family used to have a newsagents in the 70s. It was on a parade with a greengrocer, grocer, butcher, pharmacy, DIY shop, bakery, off licence, post office and sweet shop. It was very vibrant, especially on Saturdays when people came for their meat to the butchers - the knock on trade to all the other shops was enormous. One by one the shops closed (not helped by a bloody great Asda opening right opposite!), and eventually we were the "last man standing" only because of our newspapers home delivery - it was like a ghost town on our row, we could literally go hours without a customer walking in. Inevitably ours closed down too.

Unfortunately the ship has sailed. Shoppers voted with their feet and those parades have been turned into housing. They won't be converted back to shops again. The nearest we're going to get are new smaller convenience stores which seem to be popping up, such as small co ops being built on spare land that literally sell everything, i.e. costa machine, hot pies, etc.

I think the best we can hope for is for the run down town centres to be rejuvenated. Those with lots of empty/derelict shops etc. If local councils engage their brains, they could re-purpose buildings back to offices etc to encourage big firms to open local office branches and for small private firms to use shared office "hubs" etc., which will then provide trade to newly re-opened shops around them, such as coffee shops, sandwich shops, etc. But, as we know, local councils aren't known for blue sky thinking so they'll probably just let their town centres rot even more.

In fact the company I worked for stopped doing business with other companies that did this. The customer service fell off a cliff.

He should go back to work

@Adwodeabo

Your post does sound just one step removed from the British stereotype of tourists shouting in English at foreigners in the hope that the decibel level will make them understand!

@NotAKaren

The switch to Indian call centres was tried and abandoned by many companies including major banks and insurance companies who switched back to the UK after a huge fallout from customers.

I actually think call centres are a red herring here. As the years pass, there'll be less and less need for call centres as firms put more functionality into their website and apps etc. That combined with more people becoming internet-savvy, means there'll be less need for people to actually call and speak to people. All firms will need is a scaled down call centre with more experienced staff as they'll just be dealing with problem cases that can't be dealt with via their websites and apps.

Firms, of course, are causing their own problems by not having full functionality on their websites. Like Direct Line, Green Flag, Sky, Virgin, etc who don't provide any online facilities for you to cancel your renewal subcription on line. Same with HMRC who are very selective as to what they allow you to do online and direct you through to their call centres for lots of unnecessary aspects that could easily be dealt with by an online form.

@wishcaptainbarnaclewasmyboss

If your brother's team are not responding to customers on time, doesn't that mean that they are kind of chilling out on work time and thinking they won't be found out?

Honestly don't know, I guess there could be some of that going on. He reckons that half the problem is that previously if there was a problem/question he needed input on he would shout across the room to the relevant person, whereas now he needs to wait for them to respond to emails etc.

@Idontgiveagriffindamn

True - well, he SAYS he has Covid concerns but his personal actions would suggest otherwise.

@queueueue

I'd tell them to shove their job where the sun doesn't shine.

He is a chancer but he's not stupid and knows what side his bread his buttered on. He will go back to the office and be glad he is employed, which in the current climate can only be a good thing!

Honestly don't know, I guess there could be some of that going on. He reckons that half the problem is that previously if there was a problem/question he needed input on he would shout across the room to the relevant person, whereas now he needs to wait for them to respond to emails etc.

That's a very valid point. Same with trainee/junior staff. I just can't see how a firm can provide "on the job" training when the trainee is say at home on a PC and their mentor is miles away. It's just about OK for experienced staff who know their job, their systems, etc., but for inexperienced/trainees who learn on the job, it simply isn't going to work.

There is no logic in an employer ordering everyone back to their offices, risking a Covid outbreak or at the very least a few scares, meaning the whole operation potentially has to isolate for two weeks. Just wait until kids go back to school and them and parents are off waiting for testing for every cough and cold. Something in between that minimises staff contacts and keeps risks of spread as low as possible is probably the best and most likely situation for most people.