Is it wanky to put my photo on my cv?

[TheoriginalLEM]

I needed to quickly do a cv for a job interview that i have already secured.

So to prompt myself to include everything in some sort if order i used a template from word. I normally just do a plain document. Anyway the document came together well and there was space for a photo. I take a terrible picture so its definately not vanity, but the picture shows me at work looking happy and its very relevant to the post.

Two questions.

1. Are they going to think im lazy using the template (i was a bit) and will i stand out for the wrong reasons?

1. I now have my cv written out so could effectively ping it out to jobs im half interested in. Do i leave the pic/template or do i go back to sober cv?

Yabu - wanker
Yanbu - will stand out positively

@Lamahaha

What you mean @ifailed is that a photo helps you recognise a person who is “someone like us”

It's amazing, then, and quite miraculous, that I did not look the slightest bit like any of my recruiters, who were all lily-white, while I am not!

Note my comments wasn’t directed at I fail-typo!

You are N=1.

One employer gave you a job. In many organisations, BAME people are disproportionate unrepresented, particularly in senior posts. So your N=1 example is irrelevant. Nobody is suggesting all non white people are unemployable or that it’s miraculous that one non white person in the world is employed. Obviously.

The real question is whether you would have been appointed if there had been an equivalent candidate who was ‘lily white’. And why you are so determined to believe there is no discrimination at play in shortlisting and interviewing when all data suggests there is.

@Tasje

I'm not from the UK originally and didn't realise having a photo in your CV is so controversial. My own CV has a small, professional photo, in the top left corner alongside my name/details, but my partner is a graphic designer so he formatted it on InDesign and made it look professional. I haven't seemed to have problems getting job interviews in the past so it would seem it isn't a deal breaker, unless the photo is inappropriate.

Whether it’s a dealbreaker really depends on whether you are old or young, fat or thin, ugly or pretty, white or not.

One employer gave you a job. In many organisations, BAME people are disproportionate unrepresented, particularly in senior posts. So your N=1 example is irrelevant. Nobody is suggesting all non white people are unemployable or that it’s miraculous that one non white person in the world is employed. Obviously.

Actually, more than one employer gave me a job and I have been called to several interviews, despite my race-revealing photo, without getting the job. I have never once assumed that it's my race that prevented me from getting the job. I don't think in those terms, and I feel it helps.

OP, I think personally that you should cancel the cheque 😉

Good luck for the potential new job.

@Lamahaha

One employer gave you a job. In many organisations, BAME people are disproportionate unrepresented, particularly in senior posts. So your N=1 example is irrelevant. Nobody is suggesting all non white people are unemployable or that it’s miraculous that one non white person in the world is employed. Obviously.

Actually, more than one employer gave me a job and I have been called to several interviews, despite my race-revealing photo, without getting the job. I have never once assumed that it's my race that prevented me from getting the job. I don't think in those terms, and I feel it helps.

It may well help you as an individual - but arguing for discriminatory practices because you are determined not to see discrimination is doing others a disservice. It’s commendable that you have a stoical approach. You can both do that and support the removal of discriminatory practices.

...and, @MMN123MM, this was not in the UK. It was in a European country with far, far less diversity than the UK, so to be hired in spite of being probably the only person in the entire country of my race and with my professional qualification and experience, it was indeed a bloody miracle, if racism is as rampant as you believe! I have always been the only non-white person far and wide.

Photos normal on cvs in my line of work, UK based.

@Lamahaha

...and, *@MMN123MM, this was not in the UK. It was in a European country with far, far less diversity than the UK, so to be hired in spite of being probably the only person in the entire country of my race and* with my professional qualification and experience, it was indeed a bloody miracle, if racism is as rampant as you believe! I have always been the only non-white person far and wide.

On the contrary, you are then less likely to be discriminated against.

Are you in Ireland?!

I'm in Ireland, yes, right now. But this did not happen in Ireland. It happened in a country quite famous for its racism . Guess which one!
Ireland otoh is very definitely not racist.

@lamahaha

I once was part of a team recruiting a new team member. There were about 20 applicants and it was really interesting putting a face to the written CVs. It gave an immediate impression of who the person was and helped create the short-list.

I quote your earlier post. "It gave an immediate impression of who the person was and helped create the short-list".
This implies that the photo was taken into account when choosing the candidates to interview.

Then later on you say,
Of course you can't tell. As I said above, the photo was not the determining criteria; it was secondary to their experience in a particular field.

So the photo might have been secondary but you still made judgements based on it and therefore some candidates might have been rejected on the basis of their photo. Yes or no?

@Lamahaha

I'm in Ireland, yes, right now. But this did not happen in Ireland. It happened in a country quite famous for its racism . Guess which one! Ireland otoh is very definitely not racist.

Ok then.

It’s clear you are really very determined to be blind to racism if you think Ireland isn’t a racist country!

But good luck to you - everyone must find their own path.

So the photo might have been secondary but you still made judgements based on it and therefore some candidates might have been rejected on the basis of their photo. Yes or no?

The shortlist was selected because they all had the necessary experience. I certainly made no judgments because of the photos, and I'm certain my colleagues didn't either. But a photo along with full application (as I said, the application in that country is more than a CV. It's a full description of the person, including their hobbies, their knowledge of foreign languages (mostly irrelevant for the job) etc. So you get a full picture of who this person is. As I said: different strokes.

It’s clear you are really very determined to be blind to racism if you think Ireland isn’t a racist country!

I grew up in a British colony in the 50's, where racism was institutionalised to the extent that non-white people were barred from getting a job in the senior civil service, as well in several of the basic industries. And you are telling me that I am blind to racism? Really?
Talk about jumping to conclusions!

Through long experience, I have come to the conclusion that it is for me personally detrimental to go around assuming racism everywhere, and keeps me down. I've tried all my life to overcome the ingrained sense of inferiority towards white people that you get growing up in such a country, to develop confidence; I believe I've more or less succeeded and went to interviews not believing I will ne discriminated against because of my skin colour. If anything, I'd expect discrimination because of my non-native mastery of the language used there.

I don't believe that my confidence is a disservice to others, and I don't believe that abandoning it when applying for a job, and expecting not to get the job because of racism, would be of help to others. Quite the contrary. It sounds to me like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I've not experienced any racism whatsoever in Ireland, and compared to my own home country it is not racist, not by a mile.

I'd be interested in knowing of your own background. Are you speaking up as an ally of non-white people, or are you one yourself? Do you live in Ireland, or are you Irish? The Irish in my view are far and away the nicest, friendliest Europeans.

You can tell someone's personality from a photo
Stop pretending you can't

@dwiz8 without resorting to Google, or any photo-searching technology, please describe this person's personality?

I think this is very interesting. A complete eye opener of a thread. I recruit each year in my industry. Have done for last 12 years. Recruiting new graduates. Usually get about 70-80 applicants, interview maybe 30 of them, and shortlist 7.
And EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, that's almost a thousand cvs since I first started recruitment includes a photo.
It's so useful as an interviewer to aid recall.
Especially this year as during lockdown we were forced to conduct interviews via Zoom.
Honestly it made the interviews so much trickier as you couldn't physically meet the students, so having a photo was a godsend to help us remember who was who.

In bigger organisations, a photo can mean that the hiring manager will never see your cv. It will get sorted out by HR as unsuitable and not send on.

Don't be utterly silly. I certainly never said I can tell somebody's personality from a photo.
In the country I lived in the photo was a part of the entire application, and the application is intended to give an impression of that person. As well as the CV they have to write an application letter which describes their personality as well as letters of recommendation from their past jobs or other persons of influence. And the photo is part of the application. The recruiter doesn't get just a few bare facts without even date of birth. They get a whole picture.

I get that the process is different to the one in the UK and that almost everyone here is suspicious of it, but that's just how it is, and if you were to apply in some countries, that's what you'd have to do: present yourself in writing, including a professional-looking photo. You don't have to like that process, and the UK-based OP certainly shouldn't be doing that.

It's so useful as an interviewer to aid recall.

That's an excellent point. The photo fixes them in your mind so much better than a list of attributes, or even a letter. What's that they say about a picture being worth a thousand words?

Please don't! We've had one or two people don't in the past and tbh, we've laughed at them. Not because of what they look like, but because they put a photo in at all. Why would you? Such a strange thing to do.

The problem is that once somebody has seen your photo they can be accused of racism/gender or age base selection etc.Its easiest to just reject everything with a photo as standard procedure.
That ensures you have no idea about race and gender until the interview stage, and even at the phone interview stage you only know gender and maybe nationality. Race etc only becomes apparent at the last stage.

Depends on the sector probably. I’ve been in teacher shortlisting meetings where some candidates had put photos and it certainly wasn’t counted against them. I quite like it (don’t tell the outraged people!).

(They also had to fill in an application form because anyone panics about safeguarding)

@dwiz8
Would you hire this hipster?

Definitely not done in my industry.

Firms are trying to move away from anything related to bias, a photo of the reverse of that.

OP as you have met them and we recommended etc, in your case I don't think it's the end of the world.

I've seen a few CV's come into my company with photos on. I wouldn't personally do it but it's down to personal preference. Wishing you the best of luck with the job!