DFE top civil servant sacked - AIBU to feel sad and frustrated?

[Gromitt]

Just came on here for a bit of a rant and to ask if anyone else feels the same way (whether you work in the Civil Service or otherwise).

I work in the Department for Education, and heard today that the Permanent Secretary at the Department for Education was sacked by Boris Johnson earlier. I just feel so frustrated and sad at this.

I absolutely love working as a civil servant (there can be lots of opportunities for positive change both in the jobs people do and in other initiatives encouraged in departments), and the work that departments have done over the last few months (and in general) has been fantastic.

I also am hugely grateful I have a job, as I realise this is a very difficult for lots of people in the U.K. and around the world, and realise I am very lucky to have a job that gives me an income and is relatively stable.

However, I still feel really demoralised at what’s happened to the Civil Service over the last few months.

I think how I’ve felt today has been the build-up of several months of feeling demoralised and uncertain at what this government is doing.

1. Over the last few months, the entire Civil Service has worked so, so hard to achieve what the government wants (I realise this is what we are paid to do). Our jobs have been made more stressful and hectic because of Covid, the lockdown and the mountain of policy or operational challenges brought about by Covid. The sacking of the DFE Permanent Secretary only adds to this negativity and loss of morale.

1. Boris Johnson and his government have now sacked at least 3 top civil servants (the Home Office Permanent Secretary, the Cabinet Secretary and the DFE Permanent Secretary). This absolutely isn’t the way things were or should be done! (This is at least my view - I may be alone in thinking this though!)

I do feel incredibly grateful that we her support systems like unions and we can of course talk to each other, but it just feels like this government has been hindering the Civil Service rather than helping it over the last few months in particular. And it just makes me feel so frustrated and hopeless.

@Peregrina

No, we now have an unelected SPAD wrecking the Civil Service because he feels like it, and a weak PM who can't say no to him.

Cummings is an anarchist. He wants to wreck the Civil Service out of spite. Same with the EU and Brexit.

YANBU, the incompetent Gavin Williamson should have gone.

It was reported that exams weren't even discussed at the June DfE board meeting. That doesn't sound like great leadership to me. I get the distinct feel that the DfE really have very little insight into how schools function and the effects of the decisions and demands they make.

Yeah...it could be worse...imagine being a Brit in the EU civil service...! Literally everything you have worked for going down the drain...as well as your career and your children losing out on EU citizenship...

I want the impartiality of the civil service to be enforced so senior civil servants blatantly breaching this are sacked by the head of the civil service (not politicians).

I also want this, I wonder now whether we ever had it and it's something we have now lost, or we never actually had it in the first place and we have been played by the civil servants, not just the MPs/Cabinet members.

The civil servants posting here would disagree I'm sure, but maybe supporters of JS just can't see it.

I also want this, I wonder now whether we ever had it and it's something we have now lost, or we never actually had it in the first place and we have been played by the civil servants, not just the MPs/Cabinet members.

There's the bureaucratic element but civil service departments know they're a political football and do what they're told.

Look at the Windrush scandal/hostile environment. It doesn't happen without civil servants following orders from the Home Sec/cabinet.

I get the distinct feel that the DfE really have very little insight into how schools function and the effects of the decisions and demands they make.

I guess part of the issue at least is that if you are a teacher you probably wouldn't have the experience that they require for the jobs higher up, but similarly you probably wouldn't want to take the financial hit to start 'at the bottom' (obviously teachers have valuable broad skills, but in terms of specific posts which want experience doing that specific thing). However, input from people who have actually taught in classrooms, worked in schools and understand the implications would be invaluable. I guess secondments would perhaps work, or a set career path for teachers but with no direct experience in x or y. Guessing there are ex teachers that work there, but I'd be surprised (and happy to be corrected) if there were many near the top who had a lot of input and final sign off on things.

My dad used to tell me that when Shirley Williams was Ed Sec she took her 11 year old into the DfE (or whatever they were called then) and said ‘this is a school child - I wonder if any of you have seen one before?’ Or words to that effect. I mean, obviously they had their own children so it probably wasn’t phrased like that (dad was a bit of a story teller and will have embellished) but the point is she recognised that the whole department needed to remember what they were there for and who they were affecting with their decisions.

I mean, obviously they had their own children so it probably wasn’t phrased like that

As JS and JR have a trans child between them, with that in mind, their personal view of what children are like could differ broadly from what 'most' children are like.

TBH we probably wouldn't have that information in the public domain if it wasn't for the relationship JS has with Stonewall and for Pink News mentioning it, so I too have concerns about the personal being political when it comes to positions of power and influence in the civil service.

A family member who had years of experience as a head teacher in a particular specialist area was invited to meet with Charles Clarke (Labour education minister) to give advice. He was enthusiastic and turned up with carefully prepared information, costed plans etc. He returned absolutely demoralised and disgusted at the sheer incompetence, ignorance and complete disregard for children. The waste of money on projects that were actually intended to fail was particularly shocking.
I guess not much changes.
I met Shirley Williams years ago. I was very impressed.

@cardibach

My dad used to tell me that when Shirley Williams was Ed Sec she took her 11 year old into the DfE (or whatever they were called then) and said ‘this is a school child - I wonder if any of you have seen one before?’ Or words to that effect. I mean, obviously they had their own children so it probably wasn’t phrased like that (dad was a bit of a story teller and will have embellished) but the point is she recognised that the whole department needed to remember what they were there for and who they were affecting with their decisions.

Which was patronising as fuck, since most people have kids or nieces/nephews/godchildren etc. Civil servants aren't some weird robots/aliens, they're human beings, who must carry out the will of the elected government, whether or not they agree with its policies.

The DfE has just published its "new" adapted guidance.

Last thing on a Friday before a bank holiday just before schools go back.

What a group of heroes.

@FrippEnos

The DfE has just published its "new" adapted guidance.

Last thing on a Friday before a bank holiday just before schools go back.

What a group of heroes.

Fripp for a teacher you have appalling spelling..heroes is actually spelt f-u-c-k-w-i-t-s in this context.

Must try harder.

I do actually think Jonathan Slater had kids’ best interests at the heart of his decisions - he really did seem to want the absolute best for the children whose lives the department want to improve (both in education and children’s social care). And the department also cares deeply about improving teachers’ workload, which is also really important.

If they deeply care about teacher workload why the fuck pull a dirty Friday bank holiday weekend stunt like this, at the last minute?
Also ignoring the fact that some areas have already started term.
AND still not highlighting changes to the previous guidance making the job of checking for changes more torturous than it needs to be.
I'm going to start selling DfE voodoo dolls. I reckon they will raise absolutely loads for (the now closed) staffroom treats

And the DfE have just sent an update to schools at this time on a Friday. Thanks for that.

Ex civil servant here.

Clearly this is an issue for ministerial responsibility and in that sense it is disgraceful that Williamson hasn’t resigned.

However Slater’s relentless promotion of Stonewall and its illegal guidance in schools was a disgrace and itself a breach of the principles of good governance. He became their lapdog. This would never have been countenanced in my day and may well be a sign of an underlying weakening of the independence of the CS. For which I am sure we can blame a succession of appalling politicians who have presided over its weakening.

I cannot feel sorry for him - he has done so much damage to children by facilitating this shitshow when all he had to do was abide by the principles clearly set out for those in public life.

I do recall a Spad in the days of the Blair govt popping in to ask me if there were any announcements we could make over the weekend. I had to remind him that by the nature of the policies we were working on, it would require Parliamentary approval first

That said most of our Spads were great actually. No DC in those days ....

If they are being sacked for incompetence I hope we are not paying them a single penny of severance. Tax is far too high as it stands.

gromitt its heartbreaking to be honest. I found the all staff briefing yesterday very emotional, I am so angry that the ministers get to keep their jobs while decent folk like Jonathan and Sally are scapegoated.

@Xenia

If they are being sacked for incompetence I hope we are not paying them a single penny of severance. Tax is far too high as it stands.

The government will look after their own, the likes of the education minister would get a handsome pay off of course. Civil servants not so much I expect.

Someone had to go. That's the price of being a SCS. Don't worry they will find another ridiculously high paid job.

bettsbattenburg

Sorry miss. :)

GisAFag sacking someone - anyone - for carrying out the demands of their bosses, and then letting the boss remain in their job while the other person takes the blame and the fall is worrying. JS made the DfE a happy, caring and supportive place to work. The person brought in to replace him as an interim measure has been used. Gavin Williamson should be gone, not JS. It's concerning when the PM meddles in order to divert from his own failings. No SCS deserves what happened to JS and SC this week.