DFE top civil servant sacked - AIBU to feel sad and frustrated?

[Gromitt]

Just came on here for a bit of a rant and to ask if anyone else feels the same way (whether you work in the Civil Service or otherwise).

I work in the Department for Education, and heard today that the Permanent Secretary at the Department for Education was sacked by Boris Johnson earlier. I just feel so frustrated and sad at this.

I absolutely love working as a civil servant (there can be lots of opportunities for positive change both in the jobs people do and in other initiatives encouraged in departments), and the work that departments have done over the last few months (and in general) has been fantastic.

I also am hugely grateful I have a job, as I realise this is a very difficult for lots of people in the U.K. and around the world, and realise I am very lucky to have a job that gives me an income and is relatively stable.

However, I still feel really demoralised at what’s happened to the Civil Service over the last few months.

I think how I’ve felt today has been the build-up of several months of feeling demoralised and uncertain at what this government is doing.

1. Over the last few months, the entire Civil Service has worked so, so hard to achieve what the government wants (I realise this is what we are paid to do). Our jobs have been made more stressful and hectic because of Covid, the lockdown and the mountain of policy or operational challenges brought about by Covid. The sacking of the DFE Permanent Secretary only adds to this negativity and loss of morale.

1. Boris Johnson and his government have now sacked at least 3 top civil servants (the Home Office Permanent Secretary, the Cabinet Secretary and the DFE Permanent Secretary). This absolutely isn’t the way things were or should be done! (This is at least my view - I may be alone in thinking this though!)

I do feel incredibly grateful that we her support systems like unions and we can of course talk to each other, but it just feels like this government has been hindering the Civil Service rather than helping it over the last few months in particular. And it just makes me feel so frustrated and hopeless.

I get why the OP asked these questions, but, with these £200k+ jobs there must be a risk that you could go at any time.

Pretty sure both folk won't be down the job centre any time soon.

Ask any football manager.

I have gone into shock!

What have you lot at the DfE been doing? Do you not understand that school management teams have been tearing their hair out with all of the missives that get sent out.

What happened with the results? Who forgot BTECs in the algorithm? What was the point of doing all the ranking for an algorithm that had not been tested? Not all schools have approached the CAG in the same ......

Who was actually in control? Surely Gav The Muppet didn't take all the stupid decisions on his own given that there are so many of you to provide advice.

Quiet frankly the DfE is going to have work bloody hard to get any respect back in schools.

user1471457751

Yes lets distract from the spectacularly shite job that has been done by the DfE and talk about the checks and measures that are currently absent from their work.

What have you lot at the DfE been doing? Do you not understand that school management teams have been tearing their hair out with all of the missives that get sent out.

Do you not think that maybe politicians making essentially random announcements as the whim/their reading of public mood takes them might have had a role in this? How could civil servants prepare for GW changing his mind, very publicly, three times in five days, including the bizarre 'maybe mocks will do?' moment.

If you’re at the DfE, can you explain how the ‘valid mock result’ announcement came about the Tuesday before the A-level results came out?

Because I can’t for the life of me figure out how such a stupid suggestion came to be made.

I obviously think that Gavin Williamson should go, over and above anyone at Ofqual or the DfE, but I’m going to need some persuading that others shouldn’t lose their jobs as it was such an enormous fuck up affecting the lives of so many teens, and it wasn’t just the algorithm, but also how it was responded to.

I know that Cummings wants to (and is in the process of) bulldozing his way through the civil service, but as a teacher I feel I can’t immediately offer support.

I am open to persuasion though.

[quote user1471457751]@FrippEnos this is much bigger than the OP's job. This goes to the very heart of our democracy and how we function as a society. Take away an impartial civil service and you take away one of the checks and balances that protect us from an overreaching govt.[/quote]
Are you tackling all the rubbish that comes out of the DfE on a regular basis? They have little idea about the impact of all their drivel on school budgets.

As with everyone else... appalled that Civil Servants are being used as scapegoats for the constant u-turns and hypocrisy of the government. That includes governments of all parties.

@Hardbackwriter

What have you lot at the DfE been doing? Do you not understand that school management teams have been tearing their hair out with all of the missives that get sent out.

Do you not think that maybe politicians making essentially random announcements as the whim/their reading of public mood takes them might have had a role in this? How could civil servants prepare for GW changing his mind, very publicly, three times in five days, including the bizarre 'maybe mocks will do?' moment.

They are either part of the "checks and balances" that are so important or they are part of the problem.

They didn't even bother to signpost most of the changes in the guidance so that schools/headteachers and teachers could see what the changes are.

@Hardbackwriter

What have you lot at the DfE been doing? Do you not understand that school management teams have been tearing their hair out with all of the missives that get sent out.

Do you not think that maybe politicians making essentially random announcements as the whim/their reading of public mood takes them might have had a role in this? How could civil servants prepare for GW changing his mind, very publicly, three times in five days, including the bizarre 'maybe mocks will do?' moment.

Quite frankly I think the DfE bods need to be seconded into different types of school on a regular basis. That way they can have a clearer understanding of impact of all the stuff they produce.

I'm an ex civil servant and my husband is working out his notice in another dept. We left/are leaving because our faces don't fit in this new regime and we are/were both in high enough profile roles to attract attention.

We have out political opinions, but they are private we've worked happily with both Tory and labour govts in the past - but this one. It's toxic.

Yes, there could well have been political AND civil service failures. That’s not to say that people in DfE , Ofqual, wherever, didn’t work hard, and in good faith.

It’s also possible, though, that the civil servants/organisations did poorly, eg provided late, inaccurate, incomplete information and advice, didn’t flag up issues etc. in which case fair enough for the top people to go.

Of course this is possible, but we have yet to have an enquiry. Johnson knows there will have to be one sometime - when he's done a Cameron, no doubt, and run away to leave someone else to sort out his shit.

Exactly @hardbackwriter Everytime a politician bounces an idea, whether on the daily briefing (RIP thank goodness) or any soundbite, you can hear or imagine the civil servants despairing of how they can advise said person that actually this is impossible and that X or Y or Z should be done.
No, we have to match the soundbite.

And a lot of the DfE civil servants are governor's or have children and are equally frustrated by the "bouncing" around

I fear these ministers and spads have too much on BJ for him to manage them effectively. He showed his weakness by not sacking Cummings - now Williamson just needs a photo of a whip and Boris will toe the line.

If he does get out next year due to "ill health" he needs to get him memoirs out quick before someone else does it for him.

And I'm afraid I agree there is no substitute for relevant industry experience in the civil service and in many departments it is spectacularly lacking.

I appreciate it can't be a nice place to work at the moment though.

I think this debacle shows that it is time for a change

Gav The Muppet needs to go. Why does Cummings have such influence?

Boris Johnson the most useless PM in history, in fact the whole bloody lot of them need to go.

YANBU.

I'm so burnt out with it all I can't even.

I won’t be starting a whip round for him. Mr Slater has allowed a dangerous ideology to take hold in schools, pushed by lobby groups that HE clearly supported. No civil servant should be allowing their personal situation and beliefs to influence their department. He got a bloody award from Stonewall, ffs, partly for removing single sex toilets in three locations in his department!
He has been the embodiment of policy capture. Good riddance. He hasn’t gone for the reason he should have gone, but at least he’s gone.

YANBU at all, I left the civil service a few years ago and feel heartbroken for the good people who remain and are being scapegoated and used by this despicable, incompetent govt. I am absolutely certain that the Conservatives will get rid of Boris and his advisors at the end of the year and install another leader but I fear for the CS being hollowed out and denuded of talent by then.

A serious question. What do you all do at the DfE? Aside from mutant algorithms (that was a rubbish comment from BoJo)

@HellsBills

I am also in the civil service, different department. This government are terrifying, making scapegoats of anyone they can, getting rid of people who give them advice they dont like, removing comms from individual departments so they can control the 'truth' the public get to hear. Hard to believe this is happening in the UK.

Was wondering if anyone would mention the comms thing - they are planning to absolutely fucking shred the ability of departments to communicate, making massive swathes of people redundant and leaving the handful that remain stretched paper thin. Two guesses who’s grand plan this is:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/07/here-s-problem-dominic-cummings-plan-shake-government-comms

YANBU. I left the civil service a decade ago but the mantra has always been that civil servants advise, politicians decide.

I question whether this country is still a democracy . Parliament is now superfluous as this bullying Government has given itself the powers to do anything it wants and the remaining obstacle is the Civil Service.

The Permanent Secretaries who I encountered (I was mid- management grade) were invariably very very clever, knew what they were talking about and looked out for the staff in their department. More than can be said for any of the current government who are concerned only with making as much money as they can while they are in power, whatever the cost to the country.

As a previous poster wrote, it is terrifying (and depressing).

@eveningsong

I don't feel sadness, anger is the emotion I have. The country voted for a Conservative government not the nasty spiteful one we have.

Oh come on. We knew what Boris, Cummings and co were like before the election.

I’m in a Gvt dept and our Comms team are shitting themselves inside out about proposed changes. I have never known the relationship between CS and Gvt to be so bad.

The country voted for a Conservative government not the nasty spiteful one we have

One in the same thing, Williamson wanted to send in the navy to teach China a lesson (that would end well) then sacked for lying and leaking state secrets, people knew all this but still voted for Johnson.

These rich toffs are playing us for the idiots we all are.