DFE top civil servant sacked - AIBU to feel sad and frustrated?

[Gromitt]

Just came on here for a bit of a rant and to ask if anyone else feels the same way (whether you work in the Civil Service or otherwise).

I work in the Department for Education, and heard today that the Permanent Secretary at the Department for Education was sacked by Boris Johnson earlier. I just feel so frustrated and sad at this.

I absolutely love working as a civil servant (there can be lots of opportunities for positive change both in the jobs people do and in other initiatives encouraged in departments), and the work that departments have done over the last few months (and in general) has been fantastic.

I also am hugely grateful I have a job, as I realise this is a very difficult for lots of people in the U.K. and around the world, and realise I am very lucky to have a job that gives me an income and is relatively stable.

However, I still feel really demoralised at what’s happened to the Civil Service over the last few months.

I think how I’ve felt today has been the build-up of several months of feeling demoralised and uncertain at what this government is doing.

1. Over the last few months, the entire Civil Service has worked so, so hard to achieve what the government wants (I realise this is what we are paid to do). Our jobs have been made more stressful and hectic because of Covid, the lockdown and the mountain of policy or operational challenges brought about by Covid. The sacking of the DFE Permanent Secretary only adds to this negativity and loss of morale.

1. Boris Johnson and his government have now sacked at least 3 top civil servants (the Home Office Permanent Secretary, the Cabinet Secretary and the DFE Permanent Secretary). This absolutely isn’t the way things were or should be done! (This is at least my view - I may be alone in thinking this though!)

I do feel incredibly grateful that we her support systems like unions and we can of course talk to each other, but it just feels like this government has been hindering the Civil Service rather than helping it over the last few months in particular. And it just makes me feel so frustrated and hopeless.

Do you work in SB?

I work with DfE civil servants and like others, I've found them hard-working while despairing at policymaking by Dom/Boris making announcements regardless of evidence or recommendations.

There's always been a bit of retrofitting policy to what has recently come out of Ministers' mouths, but since 2016 it has got bloody ridiculous. It's no coincidence that Directors and PermSecs didn't used to openly swear in the office and now give mass updates to staff with lines like "I don't know what the fuck is going on". Cabinet Government and collective responsibility vanished under May to be replaced by stalemate, now it's replaced by Dom'n'Boris.

(This is my personal opinion, not to be taken as official government policy or that of any Department, etc.)

@endofthelinefinally

Cummings has been running the show since the Brexit referendum was announced. He is running the country. Boris is just a figurehead.

Like Alistair Campbell was the boss with Blair as a figurehead for a decade.

Like Alistair Campbell was the boss with Blair as a figurehead for a decade.

Blair got plenty of criticism for that at the time. But hey, if Johnson's Tories take a leaf out of Blair's book, it must be OK.

Like Alistair Campbell was the boss with Blair as a figurehead for a decade.

This is total rubbish.

YANBU. As a long standing civil servant I hate what the government is doing to our impartiality as well as making us scapegoats for govt failings. The ministers make the decisions not civil servants.

We will just end up with a load of yes men, fearful for their jobs if this carries on. Of course the good ones who believe the CS needs to still be impartial will leave as they won't want to be a part of it. Also wasn't GW sacked from another position in government under TM? Why don't they just get rid, what does he really add that no one else could? He doesn't know much about education anyway.

Do any of them know much about education? The last Tory who did, Justine Greening, was given the push from Education by May, and then lost the whip in Johnson's last Government. And has now left politics, when she could easily have given ten or twenty more years service as a conscientious MP.

YANBU. I know very little about the CS but as an outsider looking in it just looks like a very very corrupt, dishonest shambles leaving the public with less and less confidence in the way things are conducted.

But is it not right that the two who resigned/were sacked will shortly pop up in other roles (ie this is not the end for them its just the way the corrupt system works to give an illusion of accountability via skapegoats?

the work that departments have done over the last few months (and in general) has been fantastic

What departments op? You surely can’t be talking about the DfE? While this may not be the fault of the civil service, I think we can agree that the DfE has been a complete let down on every issue that has arisen over the last few months.

I don't work for DfE but have had dealings with Jonathan Slater in previous roles (both mine and his) and this will be a huge loss to the Civil Service.

Perm Secs are absolutely being used as scapegoats for Ministers and it is not acceptable.

And now Francis Maude is back in to do a review of the whole CS operation. It's not over - I heavily suspect that this Tory lot are going for a full constitutional change whereby the senior CS are political appointees, like they have in the USA. That would be a disaster as it's often the continuity of the civil servants that keeps the country operating during purdah and post election mayhem.

You have my sympathies OP. That said the handling of recent events has been shambolic - not all the fault of the senior CS but they do have to have some accountability. It's just a shame the politicians don't apply the same standard to themselves and sack a few of their own lot.

YANBU
They’re scape goats for Mr Williamson and Boris Johnson’s decisions. BJ has a long record of blaming others for his own failures.

Was she actually sacked though, or did she chose to go? Because theres a big difference and I'm sure the press will have put a big spin on it to rile everyone up and get more stories out of it. What was the actual wording used in the statement given out? I'm sure she will have been given a massive 6 figure payout.

Civil servants shouldn’t be responsible for policy failings and ministers need to step up and take responsibility. Estelle Morris resigned for a much lesser issue with A-Level marking.

But the civil service is in much need of reform, Gavin Williamson does need to go, but he didn’t design that algorithm that was down to Ofqual. The DfE have published ever changing guidance about returning to school, some of which was promised in July and still hasn’t arrived. (Some clearly written by people who have never set foot in a classroom either.) My husband was been seconded to the civil service and sometimes works with them despairs at times at the lack of knowledge and understanding because they keep moving people around departments so just as they start getting to grips with something then off they go again and you also lose accountability. Jonathan Slater might be a great civil servant but when you look at his career he has been shuffled round various departments - in 15 years he has had 6 different posts in several different departments, the last being 4 years so in reality 5 posts in 11 years. That’s not enough time to get to grips with anything.

I don’t agree with Cummings methods or his vision, but the civil service does need to be accountable as well.

It's not over - I heavily suspect that this Tory lot are going for a full constitutional change whereby the senior CS are political appointees, like they have in the USA.
I agree with @lightlypoached

Michael Lewis wrote a book on it called "The Fifth Risk - Undoing Democracy" about this exact issue. Trump's appointees literally rocked up, didn't take the normal handover from the predecessors and just made up policy on the hoof. It is a democracy killer.

I definitely understand the concerns around Slater's stance on trans issues and education, but I'm also very concerned with the erosion of the CS and the lack of transparency and due process in his removal, which is actually what we're discussing here. This is what people above were referring to as 'one issue' thinking - Slater wasn't removed because of his stance on trans issues, so why rejoice in his removal? He was removed because this government has demonstrated a clear lack of interest in making its ministers and the likes of Cummings accountable for their actions. This is a serious issue we should all be concerned about, regardless of whatever views you have on Slater and his stances.

There is Reform and there is Destruction, or should I say, wanton Destruction.

Sometimes circumstances will force a radical reform, as during War times. Wanton Desctruction just leads to paralysis and misery, although eventually it will lead to rebuilding.

Slater’s stance on trans issues is very problematic but much more problematic is the fact he was pushing a political stance on anything. The civil service are required to be impartial. Something has gone very wrong with that when you have civil servants championing lobby groups within their departments or criticising ministers on television (forget who that was). There seems to be an bigger problem with lack of impartiality and this not being address. And that has lead to a breakdown between the civil service and the government which will only end badly.

@Aesopfable
Exactly.

So you think the current CS is not impartial, but you want to replace their leaders with political appointees who are definitely not impartial?

There is currently a consultation open about reforming the CS. So a good opportunity to share the comments being raised here.

shapingourfuture.civilservice.gov.uk/civil-service/c3ac6adf/

@adawong

Yay another anti Tory thread we've not had one for ages.

Gosh, anyone would think they're the party in government and making a bollocks of it.

@Peregrina

So you think the current CS is not impartial, but you want to replace their leaders with political appointees who are definitely not impartial?

No I don’t want to replace one partial set with another. I want the impartiality of the civil service to be enforced so senior civil servants blatantly breaching this are sacked by the head of the civil service (not politicians). But what we have now is politicians no longer trusting the civil service to do this so imposing their own control instead.

No, we now have an unelected SPAD wrecking the Civil Service because he feels like it, and a weak PM who can't say no to him.