SD’s DM doesn’t seem to care that SD is bullying

[SpongebobNoPants]

I’m posting because my DP and I are at a loss with what to do and he feels like he’s fighting an uphill battle with his ex regarding parenting.

SD has just turned 11 and has a history of bullying other children. She takes pleasure in putting other kids down and being dominating towards them.
She’s a pretty, smart and at times very funny kid, but this side of her personality is really horrible.

We’ve tried everything... appealing to her better nature, trying to instil empathy, talking to her about why she does it (she finds it funny apparently), punishment for her unkindness by imposing restrictions on her freedom or tech use.
Nothing seems to work.

Yesterday SD had one of my DP’s friend’s DDs over to play at her DM’s house (we all live in close proximity) and whilst this play date was happening SD prank called and messaged lots of girls she knows but targeted one girl in particular.
They called this child (a year younger than SD - only just turned 10yo) a dog, a pussy, called her out for a fight, called her ugly and a slut.

This child’s mother then got in touch with our friend and showed her the messages so she went over to speak to SD’s mum and she was completely not bothered. She rolled her eyes and said “Well that’s just how kids talk to each other these days”.

Our friend was pretty shocked by this as she punished her own DD for her part in the bullying and gave her a stern talking to about cyber bullying and its effects.

DP later on rang his ex to discuss what they should do regarding her escalating behaviour.
To give a bit more background SD has form for this sort of behaviour and most recently targeted one of my friend’s children with abuse during an online game. Both my friend and I impose restrictions and monitor our children’s tech use and the children are only allowed to add or talk to close friends or family members whilst online gaming or FaceTiming. But obviously my friend’s-DD felt safe talking to my SD as she is my stepdaughter and not a stranger to her.

It was so humiliating and upsetting to have to apologise to my friend and hear how SD had been so vile towards her DD.

Anyway, last night DP decided as he pays for SD’s mobile phone then he would take it away until Thursday and go through it all and put safety blockers etc on it. Also it was part of the punishment for her awful behaviour.

SD went back to her DM later last night and DP could see calls / texts coming through on SD’s phone and being answered by SD so she had logged onto her iPad and was continuing life as normal.
DP rang his ex to let her know and it transpired that she’d actually given the iPad to her for her use “Seeing as you’ve been petty enough to take her phone away”.
She said she won’t stop her using it and “girls will be girls” with regards to the bullying.

I feel like DP is fighting a losing battle to teach SD empathy and morals. I honestly don’t know what to do, we can try and have boundaries and parent her as best we can whilst she’s with us but it is unravelled as soon as she goes back to her DM’s house.

Her DM doesn’t seem to want to parent when it gets tough... don’t get me wrong, the girls are undoubtedly loved, fed, clothed and cared for but their DM seems to opt out of anything remotely challenging when it comes to actually parenting them and my 11yo SD seems to be getting no guidance whatsoever.

What can DP do? I’m at a loss on how to advise him as my ex and I coparent happily

If it was me I would view some bully videos on real life stories and the consequences for the victims and the bullies choose one to sit down and watch with her.
I’d also ask the school for advice - if she’s doing this on her phone than likely she’s doing it in person at school when it starts.
Plus I would remember children act out - she is behaving this way for a reason. I would ask a professional some ideas of reasons. Could it be someone else is bullying or hurting her? Kids usually copy things they have learnt.

@Brakebackcyclebot

As others said, you can't control what happens at Mum's.

I would be tempted to speak to the police about these texts. These texts sound horrible, and could amount to harassment? A visit from a police officer might scare DSD?

If I was the parent of a child on the receiving end, and the parent was doing nothing, I would report to the police.

Someone will be doing this I’d imagine. And when they are back at school be ready for shit to hit the fan big time.

As you have her phone and contacts, I would send a message to all the contacts and ask if they have received any messages and to forward them to you.

Then I would apologise and send another message asking everyone one of them to block SD on any SM.

Let them know you are here to deal with issues - and to do that you need to no about it!

You can take control here

I also agree with PP most schools have a community police officer, their job is prevention, they don’t like to see kids take the wrong path and they will show them what the real consequences are for their actions.

You can also ring you local station for information on internet safely.

They’ll be other ways to block her communication.

He could always get her a brick.

There's absolutely no way I'd let her have a sleep over at yours this week. No chance. I'd also be telling her there will never be more sleepovers with her friends at yours until she learns to be nice to people
Bullying wrecks lives, my son was bullied from around 12yr to 15, he's now at 18 diagnosed with depression and anxiety.

What about contacting a bullying helpline and asking for any advice they could give you? I think that could be helpful.
Good luck x

Could it be someone else is bullying or hurting her?
In a way I really wish this was the case because it would be a relatively easy fix. She’s not being hurt or bullied herself, of that I am 100% sure. If anything she’s treated like she’s made of gold tissue paper at her mum’s house by all accounts.

If it was me I would view some bully videos on real life stories and the consequences for the victims and the bullies choose one to sit down and watch with her

We’ve already tried that, she seems to find them funny and has a total lack of empathy. Come to think of it, the only times I’ve ever seen her distressed or upset is when she isn’t getting her own way. She laughs if someone hurts themselves or struggles to do something.

The DMs parenting and your parenting are completely different but she is old enough to understand this
She is starting secondary school soon and will be a small fish in a big pond
It will be a learning curve for her. People slate teenagers but the majority are very protective of the younger students and dislike bullying
You are doing all you can at the moment but cancel the sleep over

Would you consider her emotional intelligence to be developmentally normal? Is she able to interact pleasantly at all?

Until your SD’s mother starts to take some responsibility on her daughters behaviour, there is nothing that you can do, your SD will always gravitate towards her mum as she is getting away with it all, and there are no consequences for her actions.

Is this thread by your DSD's DM?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4005753-AIBU-to-think-that-other-parent-completely-overreacted

Sorry but she is vile. Yes I know shes 11 but they can be vile at that age too. The words she used were repulsive. I would keep an eye on your dd, you never know if she might try it on her. I can imagine what a horror she will be once she hits the teens. Unfortunately as her mother backs her up, theres nothing you and dp can do.

Hopefully she meets her match soon. That's the only way it will get to her. She actually laughs at hearing how bullying affects people? Vile.

Of course, while it has been suggested that she might be being bullied, your SD might also be acting the way she does because she wants her mother to give her a boundary she knows is solid. It's good that she gets it at yours, but I've often heard it said that children act out in order to test where the boundary is. If her mum gives her nothing, she could escalate and escalate until she finds where her mum's boundary lies. Which could have catastrophic consequences for your SD and/or others.

Is the other thread related to this thread OP?
Sadly you can’t do anything if SD doesn’t have the same rules at home

Although she's about to start a new school, and this all happened in holiday time, there's still a need to tell the new school about this. It's a bullying and possibly safeguarding issue and they should be aware so SD can't access messaging etc at school.

Would your partner consider taking her to therapy of some sort? I'd think it was unusual for a happy child to be this mean so she must surely be unhappy about something.

Does she have empathy for animals? Babies?

Schools tend to take bullying and cyber bullying very seriously.
If she were mine, I would be marching her over to the recipient of her vile diatribe to apologise face to face instead of being a coward and hiding behind a screen being the big I am. Police also take cyber bullying seriously too. It is devastating and can result in serious mental health issues as well as self esteem and confidence issues. Youngsters kill themselves over this type of thing. She needs to understand what the consequences are, not just to the recipient but to their families.
No sleepover or treats until she apologises face to face. Oh, and her mother could be held responsible for any damage caused by her by merely brushing it off as something everyone does.

I’m really not sure how to say this nicely, kids can take a while to develop empathy but it does sound a bit like she is showing some sociopathic tendencies.

DD was bullied. When she started a new school in year 7 is was obvious those that bullied her found making friends difficult.

In junior school they have to run along as they are all stuck together, in high school you can mix with with anyone in different sets or tutor groups. They soon end up lonely. The other kids just don’t put up with it anymore.

What was the other thread? I didn’t see it?

Would your partner consider taking her to therapy of some sort?
We suggested this last year but her DM kicked off majorly and basically accused us of lying about her behaviour (even though teachers, other kids and friends of ours backed us up) it resulted in us not seeing her for close to 6 weeks as SD then refused to come to see us

those that bullied her found making friends difficult
This is not the case with SD, she is (despite her behaviour) a very popular kid. My family jokingly refer to her we Regina George.

The words she used were repulsive. I would keep an eye on your dd
My DD was the target at one point which lead to DP and I splitting for a short period. Since then DD hasn’t been bullied by her since... although I suspect that is partly because my DD (although 14 months younger) grew taller than her and gained a lot of confidence which made her a lot less vulnerable and therefore not an attractive target for her anymore.

Does she have empathy for animals? Babies?
Yes and no. She finds babies and dogs in particular very cute but also just a few years ago (at least 7/8 yo) would squash snails in buckets to make “snail soup” and deliberately kill insects.

With regards to little children she seems fine with babies / toddlers but I have witnessed her deliberately upset children as young as 5 recently.
She has even be physical with my 5yo nephew... during a “play fight” she very deliberately kicked him in the face.

Youngsters kill themselves over this type of thing. She needs to understand what the consequences are, not just to the recipient but to their families
This is my biggest worry and why DP and I have desperately tried to get her to see that her behaviour has consequences... the problem is that she doesn’t seem to care unless those consequences directly affect her.

Gosh up here in Glasgow someone would just set about her and that would hopefully be the end of it - no more bullying

I'd be taking all her privileges away, speaking to the school and threatening her and her mother with the police.
My daughter was on the receiving end of a vile girl like this, and at the age of 17 it still affects her and probably always will.

Yes and no. She finds babies and dogs in particular very cute but also just a few years ago (at least 7/8 yo) would squash snails in buckets to make “snail soup” and deliberately kill insects.

With regards to little children she seems fine with babies / toddlers but I have witnessed her deliberately upset children as young as 5 recently.
She has even be physical with my 5yo nephew... during a “play fight” she very deliberately kicked him in the face.

I'd be seeking professional advice. That level of empathy in a child that age is abnormal.

This is not the case with SD, she is (despite her behaviour) a very popular kid. My family jokingly refer to her we Regina George

Only because it’s better the devil you know, it’ll be different in a few weeks of high school.