"Hanging your head like a sad dog"

[SuckingDownDarjeeling]

DH has a friend over, our DC were in the room with us too.

DH and I were having a disagreement about a relatively minor issue, but I was becoming embarrassed about the way things were unfolding in front of his friend. I stopped maintaining eye contact and looked down.

DH snapped "stop hanging your head like a sad dog just because I'm trying to talk to you"

I felt really embarrassed, honestly I wished the ground would have swallowed me up.

Is this just something I should shrug off, or would other people be embarrassed by this too?

Standing up for yourself does not equal shouting OP. Why do you think it does?

You really, really need to learn to assert yourself. Calmly, nicely, politely, firmly.

When you've done that; attempted reasonable engagement or shut down the conversation politely - and he's still responded badly - then you really know you have a problem and that it's him.

Why are you so mousy with him? Are you scared of him?

@VeniceQueen2004 even as I'm posting I can actively feel myself trying to avoid any suggestion that DH could be an arsehole. Even though I know I would happily call another person an arsehole for probably less. I don't understand why I do this but I feel like I'm trying to slow down some kind of catastrophe.

@lottiegarbanzo I have recently done what I felt was standing up for myself a few days ago, when DC were asleep. He ended up asking me 'what I've become' and said I've turned into someone that's bitter and twisted, he looked genuinely concerned and it stung. In the past when I've put my foot down about things he tells me not to be so controlling and rigid, and I am honestly petrified of being a controlling partner as I used to live with one.

You don't need a discussion about irony sentence will do.

Do not ever speak too me like that again, it was embarrassing and uncalled for.

Do not enter into an argument or discussion, just walk away.

Irony = it.

Maybe he is sensitive about his ex but you're not her and he doesn't get to treat you like that and use that excuse.

Well it's not looking good.

When do you have normal conversations though? Talk things over, share what you feel, make plans together, discuss things?

That seems to be what's missing here. The core of a normal relationship; respectful, helpful, even enjoyable (ok you have 2yos, you're tired and busy, so maybe not so enjoyable) discussion.

It all seems to be about demands, criticism and arguments.

I'm sorry but if he is so sensitive because of his ex, then he's got no business being in a relationship at all. I have no sympathy for "trust" issues etc. It's just an excuse. I speak as someone who was in a long term abusive situation. He cannot hold you to ransom over things that happened before he even met you. What he said and did us bullying, humiliating behaviour in itself and he needs to be challenged over it.

Sad dog indeed. This rabid bitch would be tempted to bite him if he ever dared say such a thing again.

The thing is, your inability to assert yourself or to demand respect, in a normal, everyday, conversational way, plus your exaggerated fear of conflict (e.g. conflating 'assert' with 'shout'), will be something he noticed when you first got to know each other.

What does that tell you about him and his intentions for your relationship?

Great he was abused now you are the one being abused just great.

Another question: Given your history and your meek behaviour, what would a kind boyfriend, someone who loved you, do?

I'd suggest they'd be kind, patient and help you to build yourself up and gain confidence.

Does he do that? How does he respond to your lack of confidence?

We have normal conversations often. He genuinely has a lot more redeeming features than negative ones in my opinion. It's just recently I've been seeing those less and less. I've been chalking it up to him being stressed but things like this are making me question that. I have no idea what to do though.

@lottiegarbanzo

Another question: Given your history and your meek behaviour, what would a kind boyfriend, someone who loved you, do?

I'd suggest they'd be kind, patient and help you to build yourself up and gain confidence.

Does he do that? How does he respond to your lack of confidence?

He doesn't think I'm not confident. To be honest I didn't think I'm unconfident. I feel like I assert myself in different ways, I've never seen myself as a shrinking violet, I just can't stand shouting. My anxiety issues are a real bugbear for him and honestly I do wish they weren't. Obviously I wish I didn't have anxiety issues to begin with, but I'd also feel a lot better if they weren't exacerbated by constantly feeling that I'm pissing everybody around me off.

He knows you suffer with anxiety, so he knows that talking like that to you in front of his friend will make it worse.

He sounds awful. I'm not buying the abusive ex thing from him either.

@SuckingDownDarjeeling but why are you conflating confidence/assertiveness as shouting? It’s really really not.

Being able to say quite calmly “don’t ever speak to me like that again, in company or alone” is assertive, you don’t have to shout it.

It sounds very much like you’ve been led to feel that any form of disagreement with him is classified as ‘back chat’ or ‘raising your voice’ to the point where you can’t even tell the difference.

@MsEllany that response would genuinely be treated as controlling by DH. Like I'm talking him off like a naughty child, and I do appreciate the irony of that as I'm writing it though.

... what would he say if you told him to “stop
Hanging his head like a sad dog” then? Would be be fine with that?

Next time, just say calmly that you’ll talk about it later and then go and do something else.

I can't comment on whether he's a complete arse (possibly) but it does seem as if you wanted him to read your mind and body language. If the conversation was not uncomfortable or confrontational from his point of view then he would have found your action confusing. I would think you were trying to garner sympathy from those present by the action you took and would find that irritating because it looks manipulative. I accept that was not your intention but I do think you would benefit from learning to assert yourself, being assertive is not the same as being confrontational.

As a PP suggested, you could simply have stated you would talk about it later and either go and do something else or change the subject. Assertiveness is not something you can learn overnight but you have said you are fed up of feeling sorry for yourself so do something about it, stand up for yourself and stop handing the responsibility for managing your feelings to him. If you then find he continues to behave in the same way you will know he's an arse and can act accordingly.

He is controlling, he is a bully, he is not a nice man and he has no respect for you. He won't allow you to be an equal. That is the general consensus. So, the question is, what do you want to do?

You do need to challege him on his definition of 'controlling' and his use of the term. Why does he get to control what is considered controlling? And why is it always things you do? It sounds very much as though he's confused it with you having an opinion or a preference.

Is he used to getting his own way? Do you usually naturally acquiesce and allow that to happen? By controlling, does he mean 'you are presenting an alternate viewpoint that might result in me not getting exactly what I want?'.

Oh and is that what he means when he describes his ex as controlling? 'She was a human being with her own needs and wishes and I couldn't stand that. In the end she'd had enough of me telling her what to do, she tried to 'control' me, by offering her own autonomous point of view and then, when that got her nowhere, she took her autonomous self out of my life.'

Either it'll be 'it was no big deal', or I'll get told off for being so sensitive,

Gaslighting arsehole. He’s playing on your anxiety about being controlling (which you aren’t) by doing this and I think he needs to be told to stop. Treating you this way in front of his friends demonstrates that it is in fact him that is controlling. Classic abuse.

Grow a spine and put him in his place, and if he doesn't stay there, leave. As they get older he'll start turning his shitty behaviours on your children and when they're adults they'll either think that's an appropriate way to behave or resent their doormat mother for not standing up for herself and her children.

I was with a bf when younger who has trust issues from a cheating ex. Fair enough, but I was not her. I stayed with him for two years which was ample time to demonstrate my character, build trust and prove my loyalty. He had lots of lovely qualities. But his jealousy and suspicion did not lessen in all that time, there was no progress or development of trust, I was on a hiding to nowhere.
Part experiences do inform your attitude of course, but if the new partner is still being tarred with the same brush after ample evidence they are not the same then it's a lose-lose situation. ☹️

The simple message is definitely 'start asserting yourself, politely and see what happens.'

Getting more specific, a simple switch-around would be 'how would you like it if I tried to humiliate you / had a go at you / started an argument, in front of my friends?'. (You do have friends, who the two of you spend time with together? He does give them equal respect and attention as you do his?). Then do it, to illustrate.

If he's the type only to believe the evidence of his own experience (like a depressing number of people, especially men), he may not truly 'get it' otherwise.

The thing is, the scenario you describe here, of him contesting something with you, in front of his friend, is so very, very nuanced and so very, very normal in a lot of families and relationships.

So many family gatherings include tales of 'you won't believe what so and so did' and low level humiliations and put-downs, which, if done in good humour and fairly equally, are not bad or unusual.

Lots of people tell these sorts of tales, or present arguments to an audience, for an outside point of view, with freinds. The crucial point generally, is that they are friends of the person being sent up or argued with, so they form a supportive and knowledgeable audience. 'What are you like! That's so like you. What are you thinking? Remember the time...'

It sounds a bit like you catastrophise any disagreement.

But also like he might be taking advantage of that.