Should I ghost my friend?

[Artemisanco]

I feel really bad about this and I'm looking for advice as it isn't something I can talk about in real life.

I have a problem with compulsive lying. I don't know why I do it, but it happens. It isn't constant and I am not lying right now, but I end up lying about events, where I am from, my job and other things for no apparent reason. I've gotten a lot better with this in recent years, but not always under certain circumstances, which brings me to my problem.

I met this woman online (not romantic) and we started talking. At first there were more people and during this time I lied about parts of my life. I never expected to ever meet these people in person, and so it felt reasonably harmless. Me and this woman however have started getting close over the past year and now she wants to meet. I consider her a friend and would love to meet her, but I've never corrected the lies that form some of the basis of who she thinks I am, and I feel it is now too late as if I say anything at this point she will just feel hurt and betrayed. So I don't know what to do. Of course if I suddenly cut all contact she will feel the same way, but if I meet her in real life and she meets my DH or someone else then I'm sure she would find out about things.

I feel pretty terrible and I don't know what to do. I expect to get quite a lot of abuse, but I thought I'd try anyway to see what people think I should do. I don't know why I do these things and it has been a long time since I've got myself in this kind of situation. I didn't think it would be like this and now I'm very stuck. I don't think she would accept me if I told her at this point; not because of the content of the lies, but simply because I lied in the first place and then covered it up for nearly a year. Maybe it would be easiest if I just disappeared, but we talk nearly every day.

@Capsulate absolutely! If my person had taken ownership, apologised, even put some of the people straight on the stories so I didn’t/don’t have too it would have gone a long way with me, I’m not sure I could forget but it would have helped an awful lot and saved a lot of hurt

Tara. What a time you've had! Honestly, one of the worst bad friendship stories j have ever heard.

I*

@Capsulate I’m not the only victim, a few of us compared notes after my “weekend incident” it was quite shocking when we began to realise how far these stories had gone. Telling people her dad was dead! He was very much alive and a lovely man! Fake degrees, she was being blaickmailed, was assaulted by a date, had death threats... Even the man who had been harassing me when I decided to question him, he’d been lied too about my situation and thought he was helping me and encouraging me to leave my “abusive” husband! I’d even gone to the police and complained about the harassment at the liars suggestion! She went with me to “support” me! Honestly I could write a bloody book on the things that went on and it all seems so outlandish but it’s sadly true.

The one that still has me puzzled is when she borrowed money of f a man she was dating, wanted me to witness her handing the cash back and this guy seemed angry and at me and it seemed to be over this cash she had given him. I don’t know why she needed to borrow it as there was plenty of money in her family and why I had to witness it being paid back but I have a deep suspicion that somewhere in there was another lie and I was somehow part of the story, I dread to think what that might have been.

Id really like to understand the motivation for lying. My teen DSD seems to lie and it would be massively helpful to understand the reasoning behind it.

@shockingstocking I don't quite agree. If I did not give a toss about my friend's feelings, I wouldn't have posted in the first place. You keep talking about what a 'normal' reaction would be like, but what use is it to come on here and talk about how awful it is to be lied to? Of course I know that, but it doesn't solve the current issue. Similarly to how having a personality disorder doesn't solve the current issue. The issue is trying to do right by my friend because I've done her wrong. The bad thing has already happened. All I can do for her is to stop doing further harm. I can't undo the original crime.

@Vallmo47 it is very much like you mentioned. I am the storyteller type of liar. The adventure type, not the drama type. And you are right, I don't lie anywhere near as often as people on here seem to think I do. I used to, but I haven't done so in a long time. People asked why I would lie at all, so I thought about it and answered as best I could.

If you are only friends online, you may not get on when you meet in real life, regardless of the lies.

I can't undo the original crime.

I would quite agree if this was the first person you've hurt. But it isn't.

And I think your posts have much more to do with how you feel, whether you'll actually bother to do the right thing and have markedly little insight into the damage you've done in the past. I would have no problem if you had done this in the past but somehow dealt with it and didn't have it as an ongoing feature of your life. But you've been sustaining this for a while without feeling uncomfortable enough to think, 'No, I can't be that person anymrore'. A lot of your posts were about not wanting to lose this friendship but you cannot have a friendship with someone that you think might not be around if you were honest with them. You're controlling them. I think it would be highly benficial for you to care more about how people without your problems would react and feel, to give you a benchmark of what non-toxic relationships would look like. The alternative (as you very well know) is other people going through what you've put this poor woman through today. And yes, I think you've been more bothered throughout about how you feel about it. You've shown no insight into how being lied to might affect another person's ability to trust. Maybe you see yourself as a harmless blether. I assure you it is anything but.

All I can do for her is to stop doing further harm.

See, I'd take this more seriously if you'd been bothered before she suggested meeting up.

I’m really impressed with you OP, I used to do the same when I was younger, I grew out of it and don’t anymore but I never had the courage to face up to it and admit it. Shows growth

I think there's a lot of projecting going on in this thread. I had a best friend who lied so convincingly that I persuaded my DH that we should pay off the arrears on her mortgage because her flat was about to be repossessed. She said she would pay us back after she had sold her flat. (She had two properties so I had no reason to think that she wasn't telling the truth on this point.)

It turned out that her debts exceeded the value of both properties and she declared herself bankrupt.

She also lied to me about her marriage, saying that her husband had been violent to her, which he hadn't been. This was a really manipulative lie in that I'd helped my DSis leave an abusive marriage and she knew that.

Thankfully, my DH didn't hold it against me. We could afford the loss, so we wrote it off, as the 'friend' didn't have the money to repay us.

The lies told by the OP are not on this kind of scale. They're details about her life, where she comes from, and her job. So they're quite bizarre lies really. But if she makes a clean breast of them, it may be possible to retain the friendship. Her lies haven't damaged her friend directly (she didn't lie about her to others, or con her out of money), but it might make it hard for her to believe that she really did go through that trauma they bonded over.

@DileenODoubts

I’m really impressed with you OP, I used to do the same when I was younger, I grew out of it and don’t anymore but I never had the courage to face up to it and admit it. Shows growth

I am too tbh. I think this level of lying is more common than is being made out by some on here. Many people seem to do it and they seem to grow out of it.

To the pp asking about her teenager lying and why...I suppose it depends on the lies. OP and another pp on here said they do it to tell a good story. Lots of people don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. As long as it's harmless, that's ok, but will probably get a bit tiresome if they never grow out of it. Some people, especially teens and sometimes university aged young adults, seem to do it for attention, sympathy, the drama. Again, I've seen this a lot and the people seem to grow out of it and live perfectly normal lives. We all knew they were lying. Young men sometimes do it for kudos; oh hey I'm so brooding and deep, you won't believe the things I've seen (when actually they've always had a comfortable life in the suburbs). Young women sometimes do it for sympathy and also the deep and brooding thing. I'm so traumatised and deep, when again, they haven't actually experienced the trauma they claim. It is not good at all, but ime results in eye rolls, maybe not making any friends doing it, and the teenagers in question eventually catching themselves on at some point and stopping. I also think that teenagers who have genuinely suffered trauma, but who can't articulate it, make up a slightly different story, so they get the sympathy without revealing what actually happened to them.
Then, some teenagers lie to get away with things. They lie to get away with things, even when there is no need to lie! It is extremely common. Judge Judy, (my secret love ), always says, "how do you know a teenager is lying? Their mouth is moving". Obviously, tongue in cheek, but you know, it's common.

There have been some fire and brimstone responses on here which I think are disproportionate. It wasn't the awful lies like what happened to Tara and although some people would (fair enough) still not want to be friend with someone who admitted to telling them lies, and although it does depend on how much the lies were embellished on as the friendships continued, I honestly take issue with some of the suggestions on here that the op is toxic, dangerously abnormal, has to sit with the paaaaaiiin 👹, (sorry, but I can't help but hear that in a death metal voice), is a narcissist etc etc.

Some of the responses on here are, ironically, a bit histrionic and seeking to create drama themselves. I say ironic, as they are from people who claim to dislike inauthenticity and drama llamas.

@Tara336, honestly, there aren't enough virtual gifts in the world for what happened to you . Your former friend - did she get prosecuted or anything? Did she never apologise? Horrendous. Honestly, what a terrible thing she put you through and a lot of other people too!

If she is told she has a personality disorder which makes her toxic and dangerous (your words I think?), and that if she ever gets found out she will be ostracised and be forced to be a recluse. She will get no sympathy, although she may be doing it because she is quite a vulnerable person, (a pp's words)

I was the PP, and those were not my words at all. My post referred to the extremities of what can happen when a succession of lies leads the liar to become entirely out of their depth. This wasn't a prediction that the same thing will inevitably happen to OP and she will be forced into seclusion and given no sympathy. I'm not a mystic and I don't have a crystal ball. Nor was it an armchair diagnosis of a personality disorder. I'm not a psychologist and if I were I wouldn't presume to make that kind of conclusion about any stranger.

It was a scenario, which I thought would be obvious to any reader. Seems I've overestimated Mumsnet on this occasion.

Reiterated good wishes to the OP. There is probably nothing further I can usefully add to this thread.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

If she is told she has a personality disorder which makes her toxic and dangerous (your words I think?), and that if she ever gets found out she will be ostracised and be forced to be a recluse. She will get no sympathy, although she may be doing it because she is quite a vulnerable person, (a pp's words)

I was the PP, and those were not my words at all. My post referred to the extremities of what can happen when a succession of lies leads the liar to become entirely out of their depth. This wasn't a prediction that the same thing will inevitably happen to OP and she will be forced into seclusion and given no sympathy. I'm not a mystic and I don't have a crystal ball. Nor was it an armchair diagnosis of a personality disorder. I'm not a psychologist and if I were I wouldn't presume to make that kind of conclusion about any stranger.

It was a scenario, which I thought would be obvious to any reader. Seems I've overestimated Mumsnet on this occasion.

Reiterated good wishes to the OP. There is probably nothing further I can usefully add to this thread.

There was a pp, shocking who has made the armchair diagnosis of calling the op a narcissist; "do you think you're a narcissist. I do" and also said that the op "most likely has a personality" disorder, to quote her. Also, "sit with the pain", "you are a dangerous person" and "you have a personality disorder which is toxic to those around you" (paraphrasing that last one, but do look back if you are so inclined. I don't think I have misrepresented what she said, but happy to be corrected).

Yes, your scenario was just a suggestion of what could happen. I got that, funny enough - I don't think you have overestimated the general population of Mumsnet on this occasion, compared to your own intelligence at all.

Did you perhaps, misread my post and assumed it was all about you? Maybe it wasn't very clear.

It was very extreme, your example, but only you know what happened there and I don't doubt you were being truthful and had the best intentions towards the op. However, coupled with the harsher posts from the other poster, I was pointing out how that would have read to the op:

To be told by one poster that she has a toxic personality disorder, which means she is dangerous to other people, that she is a narcissist and that her responses are abnormal. Then to be told by you, a cautionary tale of how someone you know who told lies (much worse than the OP's) was ostracised, had to leave her course and then became a recluse. Although people knew she was unwell, because she had told lies, she was forced into hiding. I mean, her lies were pretty bad tbf, but that, as you said yourself, was a sad outcome.

Hope that clarifies a bit?

@Capsulate Bless you, thank you. No apologies at all I’m afraid, no prosecution either. In my last phone call to her I called her out (finally) to all the lies and she was angry more than anything that I’d brought it into the open! There was no embarrassment, shame or apology just pure anger that I had the audacity to point out the harm she had caused myself and others. I know for a fact she is still at it as there are mutual friends that have distanced themselves, have no contact but watching on the periphery. She was even caught posing as another person at a conference, claimed she picked up an ID badge with the wrong name by accident, she was found out because someone there knew the person who’s badge it was and let the ex friend chat for a while and it was quite clear they were pretending to be the person who’s badge it was. I have distanced myself for a number of years now but it truely worries me who she’s hurting now

Very scary to know she's out there, still at it Tara.

There was a horrible incident in my old town, where a lady, who had some very serious MH issues tbf and had her son removed from her care, tried to pose as a parent at a nursery and go in to pick up a child. Horrendous. Luckily the staff had procedures in place so that they wouldn't have let her in no matter what she said, as she wasn't known to them. She actually had been in prison already for her scary nonsense. I assume she went back after that incident.

@Capsulate thank goodness that woman was caught! Not long after I called ex friend out on her lies social services were mysteriously called about my DN claiming she was neglected and in danger. It caused all sorts of problems in my family, I believe ex friend did this out of spite as she has form for speaking to the authorities if someone “rejects” her, I know this as she was very proud of calling DSS about another friend who had walked away, on this occasion she had claimed the woman’s in question was claiming benefits while working. Obviously I can’t be 100% sure it was her but it seems highly likely.

Ugh people who maliciously call SS on people are just the worst! I mean, it's not as if SS aren't pushed enough as it is, without having to deal with made up claims about innocent people. Then the absolute nightmare for the families too! The worst. I wish they could do something about people who do that, but I guess they don't want to put people off calling it they suspect a genuine problem.

@shockingstocking I am sorry if you have been at the other end of being lied to and my posts come across as hurtful or offensive to you, but at this point I feel that you are projecting a little.

You are determined that I have hurt a lot of people in the past by lying, but you are not basing that on anything. I've also never said that. I got into this situation because I have an annoying habit of changing up part of my story or background for kicks, a habit which I have largely subdued, but sometimes comes out. The 'kick' for me is in telling an amusing story or picturing what it's be like if I been in a different job, had studied something else or went to McDonald's instead of Burger King. I'm not in it for the sympathy or emotional manipulation, which is why I tend to lie to strangers, not people I know.

I'm not excusing that as a good thing, but it is a little different from telling people that I'm dying of cancer and trying to get something out of people by manipulating their emotions. In my case it's also impulsive rather than purposeful, which is why the contents of the lies can look 'bizzare'.

I also wasn't going to get 'outed' just by meeting my friend in person. I could have kept up the lies by just keeping her away from my family and existing social circle, which, as some posters pointed out, is not impossible. I just decided that I didn't want that kind of friendship for both our sakes, and I was looking for encouragement to do the right thing, instead of running away like a coward. I'm not a particularly good person and I messed up, but I'm not sure that I'm the villain you want me to be.

I am too tbh. I think this level of lying is more common than is being made out by some on here. Many people seem to do it and they seem to grow out of it

So do I think it’s more common, not the majority but a tiny, tiny minority of people is still a lot of people. Mental illness over all is affecting very many people, and this is simoly a subset of it.

So many examples, Look at the folks trolling. Sitting at home making up shit and posting it. People who catfish other people, which is what the op was doing to this woman. Con artists living fantasy lives. Stalkers who think they are in a relationship with someone famous. The list is endless.

Who they are, isn’t enough in their heads, so they pretend to be someone else, create a fantasy and get some form of pay out for it,;they get attention often, sometimes friendship, sometimes romance, sometimes they want the feeling they got one over on people, that they were smarter, clever, more superior. Sometimes they prefer their new persona to their reality, sometimes they don’t even know it’s not real. But most wouldn’t want people in real life to know they do it.

But let’s be honest here. Just because the number of people who do it may be high in its absolute terms, but not as a proportion of rhe population, it doesn’t mean it is normal or healthy. It’s the opposite.

I'm not in it for the sympathy or emotional manipulation, which is why I tend to lie to strangers, not people I know

That’s not true though is it? Because that’s not the sort of thing you lied to this woman about. And you kept it going for a yeAr. And you got a pay out from doing it, you got her attention, her friendship. You can’t lie to those you know because of rhe risk of them finding out.

And then you considered lying some more. Ghosting her without telling her why, or keeping it up but never letting her meet anyone you know. Which would require more and more lies.

I’m not even sure you’re being honest you told her.

@Bluntness100 In that case it would make more sense to assume that I made the whole thing up, not just lied about the bit where I told her.

I'm glad I told her and the encouragement and words of warning I received from some of the posters on this thread were very helpful, so thank you.

My friend has told me that she is happy to continue the friendship. Whilst that is a better outcome than I was expecting, I've told her that she can stop this at any time if she changes her mind or feels uncomfortable.

Just because the number of people who do it may be high in its absolute terms, but not as a proportion of rhe population, it doesn’t mean it is normal or healthy. It’s the opposite.

Certainly not! But nor is everyone who does this necessarily going to be doing it for life either and I also don't think a healthy and compassionate response is to condemn people who lie like this so readily and completely as soon as they admit to doing it.

It can be a phase, which most people tend to grow out of, or it may be as a result of poor MH as you say, or due to trauma, people create an escape from being the person who suffered that trauma or maybe as a result of a neglected childhood, or one where they felt abandoned. They seek to hook people in by making things up, because they do not believe they are enough; something reinforced to them by being abandoned or rejected in childhood. Obviously, this is all speculation, but it is enough for me to generally feel a bit sorry for people who do this.

When the lies do become harmful though, that is quite different, such as pretending you are terminally ill to collect charity money dishonestly, or to con women out of money by pretending to be a good looking US marine who just wants someone to love, but could you please lend me some money...? Or like what happened to Tara, which is beyond vile.

But when they aren't harming anyone, no I would never say "that's alright then", but I would definitely forgive someone, and I have forgiven someone already, as mentioned, for doing this sort of thing. I have to say though that if the friend I forgave contacted me again with a sob story I didn't believe, I don't think I would stand for it again. But I truly don't think that will happen. I genuinely believe she has grown up and stopped doing that. Hope I'm not being naive!

You are determined that I have hurt a lot of people in the past by lying, but you are not basing that on anything.

That's true, I suppose. I just don't see how you can have made a hobby out of lying without hurting people. I don't see how you could have done it. And from the general tone of your posts, I don't think you come across as someone who would particularly notice if you had. You were considering ghosting someone who had shared presumably personal information with you relating to a sad personal life event and was talking to you on a daily basis. That would be devastating. I could be forgiven for thinking your empathy levels are...low. And I think lying is toxic, especially when you admit it's for kicks. And toxic behaviour, as a rule, is harmful to others. Not to mention yourself.

I hope I don't come across you in real life, but have a good one - keep it real