Are our kids being thrown under the bus

[Pixxie7]

Chris Whitney has said that children are safe to go back to school because they are at low risk of complications from Covid.is this another case of politics being more important than lives?

1-2% of children get it and there have been no healthy kids die from it

The are lots of safety procedures in school

My daughter who has a serious lung condition was at school for last 6 weeks as even kids with co morbidities are safe

Schools closed to prevent children spreading the disease to vulnerable adults.

A lot of schools closed fully or partially before the official closure due to staff shortages. It was absolute chaos, classes were half empty due to parents keeping their kids off and I don’t see how we could have limped on in those conditions anyway.

why is the WHO recommending masks for the over 12s then?

They haven't removed this advice from their website - personally I find WHO advice conflicting quite a lot of the time;

"Does WHO recommend staff and children to wear masks at school?" "And if yes, what type of masks?"

"The decision to wear a mask depends on the assessment of risk. For example, how extensive is COVID-19 in the community? Can the school ensure physical distance of at least 1 metre from others? Are there students or teachers with underlying health conditions?"

"Fabric masks are recommended to prevent onward transmission in the general population in public areas, particularly where distancing is not possible, and in areas of community transmission. This could include the school grounds in some situations. Masks may help to protect others, because wearers may be infected before symptoms of illness appear. The policy on wearing a mask or face covering should be in line with national or local guidelines. Where used, masks should be worn, cared for and disposed of properly."

"It is important that anyone feeling unwell should stay at home and call their health provider."

www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-schools-and-covid-19

OP: why is herd immunity 'not ethical'?

Herd immunity can be produced by natural transmission or by vaccination. I would say that it's the most obviously ethical way to control a disease, because the alternative means constraining people's freedom of movement, freedom to have relationships, acquire property, reproduce, parent, care for others, etc.

@nitsandwormsdodger

1-2% of children get it and there have been no healthy kids die from it

The are lots of safety procedures in school

My daughter who has a serious lung condition was at school for last 6 weeks as even kids with co morbidities are safe

Are you aware that the safety procedures that were in place in June have now been binned and replaced with much less effective ones?

@Clavinova - from what you quoted: Can the school ensure physical distance of at least 1 metre from others? Are there students or teachers with underlying health conditions?
Well, that settles it. Masks it is. Pupils can not be 1m apart in my room and all schools have teachers and students with underlying health conditions.

I honestly o not believe that Chris W has ever or ever would prostitute his name as a professor to politics.

He is no idiot. I would listen to him. He has repeated refused to be drawn into the politics

The advice you quote is quickly becoming ridiculous.

Extract from the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change.

1-2% of children get it and there have been no healthy kids die from it
This isn't true. In the US, they have had healthy children die from Covid. Across the world, there have also been DCs who have developed other long-term illnesses which are being linked to Covid.

It may be nice to pretend we can go back to life as it was before but that's naive. There is a risk to DCs. There is a risk to the entire school community. Studies in Germany, France, Israel, the US - have all shown that Covid spreads in school settings and that DCs shed the virus at the same rate as adults.

The governments are openings schools for economic reasons, not health ones, or even education ones because the way they are reopening means we're going to have lots of localised lockdowns and quarantines which are impossible for parents to plan for.

It's WM pretending again that they're exempt from the science and the pattern that's already happened everywhere else. It's the exact same attitude that led the UK to late lockdown and one of the highest death rates in the world.

@Clavinova

The advice you quote is quickly becoming ridiculous.

Extract from the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change.

Don’t understand the smiley or the relevance of where it’s from. You suggest it means we don’t need to worry about student transmission. I’m pointing out that it is quickly proving to be untrue. Don’t care if the advice was given by the Queen, the Archbishop, the chief scientist or me 2 weeks ago, it’s still wrong.

cardibach
Apologies for the smiley face, but the op states;

"Chris Whitney has said that children are safe to go back to school because they are at low risk of complications from Covid.is this another case of politics being more important than lives?"

Clearly the Tony Blair Institute is not in cahoots with the Conservative Government. Personally, I think this extract/advice should be the top priority for opening schools as well;

"the main concern about opening schools is that teachers can spread it among each other" ...

"For schools to open safely, therefore, the focus should be on minimising transmission between teachers" ...

I wouldn’t be so sure, to be honest...
Anyway, the advice is rubbish from a health perspective, so the reason is political. They may be coming to the same political conclusion from two different directions. It happens.

The op means Chris Whitty of course.

Derby 2nd June;
"Tests were carried out on staff at Arboretum Primary School in Derby after one employee reported symptoms."

"The academy trust that runs the school said seven staff members had tested positive and four negative."

"It added there had been no reported cases among children or parents but a deep clean would be carried out before the school reopens on Monday."

@Clavinova

The op means Chris Whitty of course.

Doesn’t matter where the advice comes from - it’s politically motivated. I’m not sure what your next post is even about.

I’m not sure what your next post is even about.

"the main concern about opening schools is that teachers can spread it among each other" ..

My main worry is that schools will pile back, community transmission will inevitably rise, lots of older people will be unable to keep shielding themselves- because they’re part of many family’s childcare/they work in schools. Hospital admissions and deaths will rise because of this.

Consequently schools will close again either locally or nationally in a totally ad hoc way,

It would be infinitely preferable to have a more measured, safe start through term 1, whilst we see how number go up.

I am getting so so sick of people moaning about the children going back. They need to go back for their education and wellbeing - the risk to them of the virus is minimal and parents need to get back to work. The moaning needs to stop. Teachers have to get on with it the same as millions of the rest of us who had to work during lockdown.

It would be infinitely preferable to have a more measured, safe start through term 1, whilst we see how number go up.

I would say last term was this. I saw pp that numbers didn’t go up.

Would you do anything differently to last term?

^Press release

Statement from the UK Chief Medical Officers on schools and childcare reopening

Statement from the Chief Medical Officers and Deputy Chief Medical Officers of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales on the evidence of risks and benefits to health from schools and childcare settings reopening.

Published 23 August 2020^
www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-the-uk-chief-medical-officers-on-schools-and-childcare-reopening

I would say last term was this. I saw pp that numbers didn’t go up

It wasn’t though - we had 25% of yr10 in at any one time. That’s a tiny fraction of out school community.

It’s completely irrelevant what I think anyway - all students are coming back. I just hope we don’t end up having to be reactive with shut downs.

Yes it was small, and detrimental to learning. And frustrating as my yr10 school could have fitted more, and SD still.

They should have not capped it so highly.

So a million kids went back to school in June and July and there were 30 outbreaks of Covid, involving 70 students and 128 staff. To me that the key finding in the PHE study about schooling in June and July was:

It said most of the 30 outbreaks detected in that time had likely been caused by staff members infecting other staff or students, with only two outbreaks thought to involve students infecting other students.

So the evidence suggests that the focus should be on protecting children and staff from other staff (like in any workplace) not staff from children or children from other children.

‘Teachers have to get on with it the same as millions of the rest of us who had to work during lockdown.‘

Arghhhhhhhhhh. For goodness sake. There is not one single profession which has been/is being asked to return under such circumstances without PPE. Up to 200 pupils every day. Poorly ventilated, small classrooms. No social distancing. No PPE. Tell me ONE profession with similar circumstances.

@WutheringTights

As an ex senior school teacher, I’ve managed to teach even with a toddler in the room. It’s not impossible, it wasn’t perfect but better than the alternative. I think parents might be shocked at how much teachers have to juggle, you struggled with two children try having a small class of 16 with 16 different abilities and 16 different interests.

I'm confident that I could have been an amazing teacher to my 3, 5 and 7 year olds if they had their peers around them, I had a properly equipped classroom, I wasn't also working full time in a demanding job as well as acting as school secretary, cleaner, cook, dinner lady, wrap around care provider, caretaker, sports coach and head. And I had the training and classroom experience of an actual qualified teacher.

It's a damming indictment of teaching profession that we think that amateurs with no knowledge or training can teach their kids in their spare time just as well as actual qualified dedicated teachers.

Lol at the fact you 1) think peers make children better behaved 2) you assume classrooms are well equipped. Also everyone and their dog thinks and has thought teachers were lazy or it was an easy job for years with masses of holiday, I find it interesting that none of them did the job and how many of them are now complaining that they have had to ‘teach’ their children. My teacher friends have only had the summer holidays this year. All of the other holidays they were in school for the vulnerable and key worker children. My comment was in answer to the person who said they’d like to see a teacher deal with a classroom with toddlers in it, I have. In fact in the schools I taught at it wasn’t all that unusual.

I actually think a lot of you had a terrible provision from your schools if you had to teach them anything. I didn’t teach DS anything except my old subject, his school provided him with the work and it walked him through what was expected.