Are our kids being thrown under the bus

[Pixxie7]

Chris Whitney has said that children are safe to go back to school because they are at low risk of complications from Covid.is this another case of politics being more important than lives?

[quote allfalldown47]@WutheringTights with all due respect that does sound a very extreme reaction to the situation and very unusual.
I live very close to the school I work in and have seen so many of our families during lockdown and have spoken to them endlessly from a distance.
Yes, their dc are bored etc and parents are obviously desperate for a return to normality for them but your ds behaviour sounds very worrying/extreme and I hope you are seeking help for it?[/quote]
It's not as unusual as you think. Amongst my kids' friends I'd say that at least half are struggling and displaying worrying behaviour. My kids' teachers know he's struggling but have no idea how bad it is because they haven't asked/been available to speak to. Also it's got worse as time has gone on, so only got really bad during the holidays. Plus mental illness is stigmatised so most people will try to deal with it themselves until they can't. It's a ticking time bomb.

@letsghostdance

Of course children can catch covid. They can get sick and they can die from it. Anyone saying otherwise is lying, maybe for political reasons, maybe because they're stupid.

I assume that the people saying schools should never have shut aren't teachers. As a teacher I'm delighted that for a time we were seen as important enough to try and protect by keeping schools shut. That's obviously over now. I teach in Scotland and as the cases in schools keep creeping up I'm becoming more and more anxious. Having a child with covid in my poorly ventilated, overcrowded classroom is becoming more and more a possibility.

Hear hear.

[quote ReefTeeth]@letsghostdance I've never been a fan of strikes, but I can't understand why teachers aren't striking over this?

You've been let down by your government and by parents. No safety measures is shocking.[/quote]
I'm not very knowledgeable about union matters but I read we can't strike over Health and Safety matters... absolutely crazy.

I'm not naive enough to think that parents are being totally honest with me and many have said how tough it has been for them.
My own ds is a teen and it's been horrendous for him at times but the poster is talking about their 7 year old self harming, a very worrying situation, that needs urgent action.

I want schools to reopen with a sensible plan precisely because I give a shit about education. The current government plan of "open with zero protection" will absolutely lead to an increase in cases and therefore either local or individual school closures, in a haphazard and unplanned way. I'd much prefer planned part time teaching which would be more likely to allow schools to remain open for the whole year.

Secondary age children spread the virus in the same way as adults. And nobody is suggesting that adults go back to work in poorly ventilated offices with 150 people, no masks and no social distancing! The individual risks are small, but if the virus starts to spread again we could easily be back to March - either allow the NHS to become overwhelmed or close everything down. And, above all, that must not happen.

This is one of those times we need to be really clear with what kind of setting we are talking about. Current evidence is that children under 10 don't spread it much, so the risks from primary and nursery settings reopening is really about the fact their parents can go back to work, rather than the risk of spreading within the setting. So employers have a responsibility to ensure that the parents' workplace is covid secure. The same is not true of secondary settings - the risk of the spread is within the setting, so schools should be covid secure. And they aren't going to be.

I find the Guardian article at 7:06 a little inflammatory;

Ten lines in;
"The same week, Georgia’s department of health confirmed the death of a seven-year-old boy, the state’s youngest to die from the virus. He had no underlying health conditions."

Their link to the story doesn't work from the UK and they don't mention that the primary cause of death was drowning - the unfortunate boy was left unattended in a bath with a high temperature, where he had a seizure. We don't know the temperature of the bath water, (too hot, too cold?) or whether the boy was predisposed to epilepsy; "In hot water epilepsy, seizures are triggered by being in hot water (such as in a bath)."

Secondary age children spread the virus in the same way as adults.

There doesn't appear to be a definitive study either way.

I find when speaking to family and friends that there are broadly speaking two groups:

1. relatively well off (house + garden, laptop for each child), parents WFH and can to some extend support the learning. These tend to fret a lot about the reopening of schools

2. less well off, not having IT equipment for each child, lone parents, children with SEN. In many cases, these children had often much less of an education that then other group and struggled much more also with MH stuff.

Covid can kill/make ill but so do many other things such as poverty, severe MH issue. The issue is, most people don't give two hoots about the poor or disabled really struggling with Covid and the school closures and all it involves (I know two with MH conditions who commited suicide but I know know personally of anyone dying of Covid). But somehow, because school closures don't impact on the better off as bad as others, it is suddenly an issue. What about all those children who had next to no education? what about those who hugely struggled financially, families who ended up with severe MH crisis etc.

It's not just Covid that can have a devastating impact of someone's life but many seem to forget it because for them, the main worry is Corona and they lack the empathy or understanding that it's not a simple for many.

@Clavinova

I'd be hugely surprised if my 5ft 8 14yr old wasn't more similar to and adult than a DC in terms of spreading a disease.
That's what the government doesn't want to talk about or acknowledge.
We do need schools to go back full time for all ages, but we also need to acknowledge there is a risk especially for secondary school teachers and families with vulnerable members.

I don't think return to school should be mandatory provided there is a valid health reason , other than a DPs anxiety, about a DC being there. Equally we should try to protect vulnerable teachers i.e. those with pre existing health conditions, or over 50, overweight or all 3, until the schools have been back for a few weeks and we know a bit more about infection rates. I wouldn't have an issue if secondary DC were required to wear masks in corridors and as I can afford it, I'd pay a bit towards antibacterial gel in the school.

How does everyone's children feel about going back?

We were talking to our two boys last night (18 and 13) and they've both said they are desperate to get back to school and college and have no worries. Youngest said he would be back on Monday if he could.

I know it's not the main thread subject, but I'm interested in seeing how others children are feeling about schools reopening.

DS 14 has been back for 2 days - Scottish private school. He's really enjoying it and says it's so much better being in class than having the online teaching.

monkeytennis97

Expert opinions on the same research study here;

"In my opinion the headline of the press release is very misleading, because the study does not actually demonstrate that children spread the virus." ...

“The study is a valuable contribution to the study of COVID-19 in children, but the paper makes some bold claims regarding the role of children as silent spreaders of the COVID-19 virus.Without studies of transmission, and while focused only on symptomatic children who are a minority of the whole children cohort, these claims are largely unfounded.”

www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-claiming-children-are-silent-spreaders-of-sars-cov-2/

"There doesn't appear to be a definitive study either way."

@PhilCornwall1

How does everyone's children feel about going back?

We were talking to our two boys last night (18 and 13) and they've both said they are desperate to get back to school and college and have no worries. Youngest said he would be back on Monday if he could.

I know it's not the main thread subject, but I'm interested in seeing how others children are feeling about schools reopening.

Mine are loving it!

Mine are keen to go back.

How does everyone's children feel about going back?

15 yr old can’t wait, very positive. Has done a lot with friends but much prefers school to online learning.
10 yr old a bit different but I know will be happier back.

"There doesn't appear to be a definitive study either way."

This is what I have found from hearing about various studies, still not definitive

People are mistaking the target of this public messaging. It is not about schools re-opening or remaining closed - schools are re-opening and no one is standing in the way of that regardless of what you might have been told about unions.

This message is aimed at parents who do not intend to send their children back to school when they re-open, and parents who don’t think the current safety measures (hah) are adequate.

"The children aren’t, but the teachers are."

This.

I come at this from two sides...

I know children need to be back at school. My two (15 and 12) certainly do. I know we need schools to reopen for the sake of the children, their education, mental health etc and also for the sake of the economy.

However I have some personal reasons for being worried about it (sometimes to the point of tears)
I am 52. I am obese (trying not to be) and I am a TA in a primary school. I work 121 with children with GDD. I suspect if I get it I will be fucked.
I have 2 children with HFA. Because of the chnages to the school day in both my school and theirs my youngest will end up waiting for well over an hour to be collected OR they will need to get a bus home.
My mum is 76. She lives in a different county. Because I have been out of school for 4 weeks (I worked on a rota at the start of lockdown and then ran a bubble full time once the year 6s came back) we have been able to spend a week together. She is now not willing to see us again once we go back to school. She is a pain somwtimes but I love her and miss her.
My dad is 80 and has cancer. He lives alone over 400 miles away from me.

I ma just one person. I recognise we cannot stay locked down for ever - it's just not possible.
BUT I feel 'disposable'. I feel that I don't matter. Fine, kids are less likely to catch it BUT everyone seems to be conveniently forgetting that adults are in schools too.
We've been told no PPE unless we are waiting with or dealing with a child showing symptoms. I work with a child that cannot social distance and is forever coughing and sneezing on me. I cannot wear a mask as he needs to see my face but I don't understand why I can't wear a visor to deflect the sneezes!
I am trying very hard not to cry when I feel so invisible and 'disposable' so I am about to resort to my usual stress beating tactic of sticking my fingers in my ears and ignoring the 'threat'

Equally we should try to protect vulnerable teachers i.e. those with pre existing health conditions, or over 50, overweight or all 3

So who would teach, I think every school knows of several who, rightly or wrongly, would not want to go back

@ConiferGate

Equally we should try to protect vulnerable teachers i.e. those with pre existing health conditions, or over 50, overweight or all 3

So who would teach, I think every school knows of several who, rightly or wrongly, would not want to go back

Teachers who can't go back to the classroom should do online/remote teaching for the pupils who can't go back to the classroom. Review on a term by term basis.

It doesn’t seem to matter what the question is or how people try to discuss it, these threads always descend to ‘but the schools must open, it’s important for children to be in school’ as if anyone is arguing otherwise. We all want schools open. We just would like it to happen in a way that means they stay open and infection doesn’t spike in the community again.
Once again nobody is saying keep schools closed will you all stop arguing as though they are?

We all want schools open

Not only that, they are opening. There’s no question about them not opening.

Trouble is, @user1497207191 you might well have schools where that leaves you with not enough staff to open. The pupils not able to come in won’t all helpfully come from one or two classes...
Measures to promote safety of vulnerable people in schools would be more practical. And I say this as a 55 yr old overweight teacher.