to wonder if school uniform should be worn

[manicinsomniac]

I know all the arguments about school identity and poorer/less fashion conscious children not being teased. And I've always agreed with them. Plus I just like uniforms.

But I've been helping with a charity over the summer (a clothing bank) because it does big school uniform events where people can come and get their uniforms for free. It was a really hot day when we did the first one and, due to a combination of the number of people who turned up and Covid rules meaning only 5 could come in at once, many of them queued for 2 hours!! It actually really upset me that so many people are in a situation where it is preferable to queue for that long to avoid spending maybe £20 (don't actually know?) in the supermarket.

All the children who came in had clothes. The only reason they needed the uniforms was because the schools say so.

AIBU to think that really, when families are struggling this much, uniform just isn't that important?
YABU - uniform is important
YANBU - I agree with you, it shouldn't be needed

I agree with school uniform. I went to a primary with no compulsory school uniform... Unless you were me and a few others whos parents made them wear it anyway. I stood out and I did not enjoy it anyway mine are happy in their uniforms which are (at primary) cheap... The seniors are nore expensive and thats what I think shohld change, the cost. Uniforms should be cheap and cheerful, preferably unbranded and easily replaceable. It would make everyones life easier I think.

Children grow so if I didn’t buy them uniform I would have to buy them more casual clothes regularly. My kids have enough casual clothes for weekend wear only for the upcoming autumn/winter. If I didn’t have to buy them uniform I would have to buy more casual stuff which can be more expensive.

When you wear regular clothes every day to school it stops being a novelty as you dont have just one mufti day to make an impression or show what you have.
From my experience, it doesn’t. the fashion show goes on, every day, and its merciless. Trainers, jeans, bag, pencilcase, pe stuff, everything. and obviously you need several if each...
Some if my relatives are teachers in not that affluent areas, and they spend an incredible amount of time chasing up destroyed, damaged and stolen expensive items, and keeping the dresscode to minimum decency (no bra tops and superminis for girls etc - its fairly loose). they dream of school uniform as it would at least reduce the bullying and their workload a bit (at least only bag, pencilcase and coat)

School uniform should be basic though- trousers, shirt, jumper with sew on badge

I don’t know why schools don't just sell iron on or sew on badges of the school logo cheaply, then parents can access whatever uniform they can in the school colours and put the badge on themselves.

I'm in Scotland so mine are back at school (secondary). Blazers are optional at ours anyway, and our back to school guidance was that blazers and ties should not be worn until further notice. Clothes should be washed every day and if they don't have enough 'school' clothes they should wear as similar as possible. There's lots of black jeans and hoodies and I don't see a problem with that especially just now. The school are looking at how they can help families that struggle with washing.

They've been back a week and a couple of days and already one of my daughter's teachers has been for testing and last night someone she sits next to told her they were going to be tested, so part of me is just waiting for the move back to home learning. We got as little as possible although they needed new shoes anyway.

Most countries don't have school uniform
I live in Germany and kids just wear the same clothes in or out of school

I grew up poor - widowed disabled mum on v low income - and when I went to grammar I was the only poor kid there

The only one wearing tatty uniform every day, the only one who didn't get new uniform every year, every term some of them
and they had plenty of each item, so didn't have to keep wearing them for days
(we didn't have a tumble dryer and things didn't dry overnight in our damp terrace)

The only one in a blazer that was way too big for a couple of years and then in later years my arms sticking out of the sleeves,
it was a very tired-looking blazer long before then

Of course some kids laughed at how tatty I looked
I was socially isolated anyway from not being able to join in anything; a tatty uniform instead of my own clothes was just money down the drain, didn't make me fit in at all.

Outside of school I had ordinary cheap clothes - and shoes - which fit and were comfortable
Mum could afford to get new ones when I grew out of them, because she had her choice of what to buy

School uniform makes parents far more than they would otherwise have to for clothes

When you are poor, uniform is too much out of your budget

School uniform makes parents pay far more than they would otherwise have to for clothes

Some of it depends on the required uniform.
Bog standard grey trousers and white shirt in multi packs from the supermarket ought to be affordable for the majority. However exclusive jumper and skirt only available from specific supplier is usually highly costly.
That said, a lot of Facebook groups exist where people will sell on or swap school uniform items, at a greatly reduced price and it's not uncommon to have a "pop up shop" at school fêtes for items too.

In the 60s and 70s in the UK I remember when uniform went out of fashion for reasons mentioned here. However parents found that it meant some children had very expensive trainers and designer clothes and schools had issues over people wearing unsuitable clothes and parents almost demanded a return to uniforms. (Private schools had largely kept uniforms although not all - I think one of my daughter's sixth form - girls only - did not have uniform).

Now we are the other way and most schools have them.

in fact in the 1980s my daughter (private school) had 100% second hand uniform actually bought at the school in their second hand sale - we would rush in to be the first to get the all popular second hand blazer that was so much cheaper. She jokes she had second hand cloth nappies too such was her deprivation but I don't think that one was quite so.

None of which fannying on would be needed if we just didn't have uniform.

Funnily enough, competition about kids' clothes just isn't a big thing here in Germany
Maybe just among the MN mc

Education is quite good in Germany too - academic standards don't slip just because kids can wear their choice of clothes and shoes

My DDs secondary specifies black or blue coats. If they’re seen with a different colour they get into trouble. I usually get hand me down coats or buy in the sale with the idea that it’ll last a couple of years. DDs current coat, new in January is green so she can’t wear it & her lighter waterproof is the wrong blue so she also can’t wear it. Her DM ankle boots that she wore in year 6 & still fits into are also not standard so she can’t wear them. She needs new clothes & shoes for weekends too but she will have to wait for those because her uniform has cost so much.

@BigChocFrenzy i‘m german with many relatives who teach in german schools. the fashion competition was insane when I went to school, and it still is.
its ok in rich or upper middle class areas as all have access to the same, but according to my relatives it gets insane in mixed or deprived areas. I grew up in a deprived area, and ut was all about labels. still is in that area (most friends stayed there)

Loads of people would give up 2 hours of their time to save £20.

I am a big fan of uniforms. When I was 9-10 our primary school just stopped enforcing it and it was a nightmare each morning digging out something acceptable to wear in our chaotic home.

Loads of people would give up 2 hours of their time to save £20. Yes, I earn £10 an hour and that's before tax and NI so £20 for two hours is well worth it.

I would like to understand the rationale behind school uniform and the evidence that supports it.

They say poor kids will be put in a difficult position with others flaunting their wealth. Where is the evidence this will happen. You can't use the odd non uniform day as this is not representative and I suspect the infrequency of these days distorts behaviour. Are there international examples of this occuring? As I said earlier the primary school my ds went to had no uniform and no problems. Same with 6th form.

Where is the evidence that uniforms improve attainment.

I wonder if school uniform actually means kids are more focused on fashion because they feel deprived. Worth a bit of research.

If we are to have a uniform why do do many schools have one supplier and logos. This drives up the cost a lot! And why are there different blazers for girls and boys. This means I can't pass a blazer from brother to sister cos apparently everyone would know.

There was an attempt to tighten regs around school uniforms but don't know what happened. ..

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-51385214

I think primary should be non uniform but parents should be asked to send them in clothes they can do sports in. So leggings/joggers, t- shirts and trainers.
Secondary’s should be polos and black trousers and shoes.

@ShouldWeChangeTheBulb that would be tons of expensive football kits then, making labelled uniform look downright cheap. You can’t win i’m afraid...

I like uniform and appreciate the quickness of getting ready in the morning and minimising the issues that come up about being in fashion (with a uniform it's limited to shoes, bags, pencil cases & coats). DD spends hours deciding on what to wear to meet her friends at the park, trying to get her to pick an outfit every day for school whilst also leaving on time to get there would be a nightmare!

I do however think uniform should have basic staples that can be bought from any supermarket/clothes shop. So plain black or grey skirt/trousers, plain shirt, plain black blazer with a logo available to stitch on, same for PE kits, none of this logo on everything, school colours, certain items for certain years/houses nonsense.

DD's school requires specific uniform that is only sold at one shop (online) and the prices whilst not individually extortionate (or maybe I'm kidding myself) soon stack up. I was shocked when she started in year 7 just how much her uniform cost compared to her primary (where the uniform was basic) and the school made things harder for less well off families by changing everything that year (colour scheme, logos, the lot). So no option of handy me downs / second hand sales, it must have been hard for families who had planned to use older siblings outgrown uniform.

Last year they decided to change the PE kit and would phase the old kit out (so you had a year to get all new kit), which doesn't sound too bad until you consider that means getting; Long sleeve & short sleeve tops, tracksuit, shorts & socks totaling £80 (and that's only if you want 1 of each), imagine if you had 2 or even 3 children at the school. The potential for perhaps siblings to share, pass down etc that only works if they are in the same school house as each house has it's own colours for everything too. Same goes for the regular uniform, even the ties, every school year has it's own tie (£8 each), it's ridiculous why can't they all have the same tie and make it easier for people to buy second hand/pass on (not to mention how wasteful it is when they change everything!).

Also makes it harder buying replacements as the uniform shop typically takes 2-3 weeks to deliver. Not very handy if your DC has a sudden growth spurt over the Easter holidays or as is normally the case loses/damages something!

Last year they decided to change the PE kit and would phase the old kit out (so you had a year to get all new kit) That's ridiculous! DS wore the same games and PE kit from year 7 to 9, only now has new (second hand) shorts for year 10. He's only just hit a growth spurt at 14 so he will need new (second hand) rugby and PE tops sometime in the next year, but they are fine for now. A year isn't much notice if you've just bought new, and then it wipes out second hand stocks.

Same goes for the regular uniform, even the ties, every school year has it's own tie (£8 each) I don't see the point of ties at all, but they should only ever have to buy one!

Lua you are correct. Pre school hols, my husbands primary school was insisting that children in Yr groups attending wore different clothes on following days.
How hard is that to implement if it's uniform? They are still do this in Sept, no uniforms at the mo. We bought our son (y6) new jumpers (logo) and new shorts, never wears trousers, in Feb half term they've been worn for 3 weeks!

At dd14 school as outlined above 2blazers, 2 ties, pe polo, track pant, logo leggings, logo skort, zip up fleece logo then shoes trainrs etc cost around £500 this year, her school also have 1 uniform y7-9 then change to a completely different uniform for y10-11

@whirlwindwallaby

Last year they decided to change the PE kit and would phase the old kit out (so you had a year to get all new kit) That's ridiculous! DS wore the same games and PE kit from year 7 to 9, only now has new (second hand) shorts for year 10. He's only just hit a growth spurt at 14 so he will need new (second hand) rugby and PE tops sometime in the next year, but they are fine for now. A year isn't much notice if you've just bought new, and then it wipes out second hand stocks.

Same goes for the regular uniform, even the ties, every school year has it's own tie (£8 each) I don't see the point of ties at all, but they should only ever have to buy one!

I know, it's unfair, I think if they wanted to change something entirely it should have started with the new year 7's and been gradually phased out. I've given up trying to buy anything not from the uniform site as the school are so picky.

Even trousers, they specify a shade which means you would be taking a gamble getting them from the supermarket, easier (although more expensive) to just buy from the uniform shop. Even belts they are very specific on, has to be black and must be narrow, no wide belts allowed! DD only wears skirts but it has made me chuckle thinking of whether they get a ruler out and measure belts they deem on the cusp, I mean maybe I'm just totally ignorant but what is the definition of a wide or narrow belt, what's the cut off, half an inch? 1? 2?

We've been very lucky in that DD has only lost (sort of) 1 tie and 1 entire PE kit including trainers (that thankfully turned up a week later but not before I'd ordered replacements). Ordered her a new tie and about a month later her friend brought her missing one in as she'd left it at her house after school (they'd gotten changed for dance class and she'd stuffed her uniform in a bag but missed the tie).

The school are strict on uniform as well, if you don't have a tie you get a detention, DD was in a total panic when she had to go in without a tie and a note explaining the situation. The school let her wear one from their box of spares but she had to hand it in / pick it up each day until her new one arrived.

Our primary school doesn't require any logoed uniform, so Aldi can cover you for under £20. It's shoes I find appalling. Over £40 for a pair of Clarks that might only last 6 months! Or if you're wide an ill fitting pair that hurt your feet or slide around.