AIBU for not eating meat on moral grounds?

[ShouldWeChangeTheBulb]

I have been with my partner for 12 years and haven’t eaten meat since I was about 9 years old, so I haven’t eaten meat the whole time I’ve known him.
Today after walking passed some pigs on a nice open air farm I made a comment about how intelligent pigs are and that it’s a shame that that is not always how they are treated. I said that I thought modern farming is cruel and immoral.
My partner, who eats meat, got upset with me and started sulking and refusing to talk to me. When I asked him why he was upset he repeatedly said I was a bigot for saying that eating meat, when farmed by modern standards, was immoral. I argued my point and talked about the environmental impact and the and the cruelty to animals but also said that I felt the dairy industry is immoral but I drink milk so it’s not like I feel morally superior to anyone.
He just said that anyone who has moral surety is ‘suspicious’ and a bigot.
I can’t understand why he didn’t realise I felt this way, surly it’s obvious that I think it’s morally wrong otherwise I’d eat meat. I have always told people, when asked, that it’s a moral choice because I feel modern farming is wrong but I don’t try to convert people or go on about it, this is the first time he’s heard me say anything like that in 12 years.
AIBU and a bigot for thinking modern farming is immoral?

Yanbu

Your partner clearly isn't the brightest bulb in the pack as he clearly has no idea what the word bigot means either

I eat meat and do so fully understanding it's not nice, morally or environmentally. Clearly he doesn't operate at that level of brain power to be able to be able to assess the impact you make on the world

Of course you are not unreasonable in having your views on that, I happen to agree with you. You know how this thread will go though, it won’t just be your partner sulking and having a go at you...

I’m just surprised you’re having this conversation about the reasons for your vegetarianism after 12 years! I’m a long term vegetarian as well - the ‘why?’ question usually comes up in conversation socially even now pretty regularly. Like you, I’m not interested in preaching to people & don’t make a deal of it. I’m sure DH and I had the conversation within a week or so and I’ve definitely been questioned about it loads of times with him present since.

But back to the AIBU, personally YANBU. I’d qualify modern farming though - I assume you mean industrial factory farming rather than modern organic which could also fall under modern farming. DH works for an Animal Welfare Charity who amongst other things campaign for high welfare farming practices. More recently they’ve also been promoting the health benefits to the planet and individuals of a less meat based diet (they recognise that not everyone is going to go veggie and that’s not achievable and a switch off for many however promoting less meat based diets & looking closely at the provenance of your meat is going some way to improve both the situation for animals and the environment).

Factory farming from both an environmental, animal welfare and human health perspective is bloody awful.

Errr he definitely doesn’t understand what the word bigot means!

He probably means hypocrite rather than bigot.

You think modern farming is cruel, and told him as much, but still contribute to it by eating dairy.

Sounds like you were having a bit of a dig at him tbh, not sure why you thought he wouldn't take it as one.

YANBU. Who would you even be bigoted against? Meat eaters are not a protected class...

He’s in a sulk because people don’t like to feel challenged on the decisions they make. This can be especially prominent when it comes to meat eating because food is very closely tied up with lots of other emotive things like culture, family, socialising etc., and because most people know that meat eating is hard to justify from a moral perspective but want to keep eating it for reasons of taste / convenience etc so they get defensive rather than face up to the fact that they’re making a decision they know is really immoral.

I’m going to hop on my own soap box now and suggest that if you’re vegetarian for moral reasons, you may want to consider going the whole hog (sorry for that terrible pun...) and becoming vegan. It’s much easier to make the transition from vegetarian to vegan than from meat eater to vegetarian imo! You miss things at first, but it’s amazing how quickly that stops. Just a thought!

I’m with you.

@nicky7654 90% of halal animals killed for food in the UK are stunned, same as non-halal meat animals. The only difference is a recording of prayers is played in the background. The failure rate of stunning in all animals killed for food is about 5-10%, so it’s basically the same. If you’ve an issue with halal meat you should have an issue with all meat

YABNU for gently, occasionally, sharing your views with him. YABU if you're [say] violently forcing them on him at every mealtime.

Overall I agree that the moral [including environmental] case for eating meat is poor, dairy possibly no better, though I still eat it sometimes [meat that is, I have quite a bit of dairy every day].

I also believe that this view is becoming more common, and suspect that a hundred year's from now [to the extent that we're not living in some kind of post apocalyptic scenario & that the insanely powerful, especially in the US, farm lobby can be handled] we won't be rearing animals for slaughter on anything like the scale, or using anything like the methods, that prevail today. Vegan diets, lab grown meat, etc, will IMO all be much more important than they are now.

But I'd never be overly preachy about the topic. Sure, I do believe that avid human carnivores are 'in the wrong' to some extent, but any one individual is in pretty good company, basically because meat eating has been the 'Western' world's norm for so many generations...

If you’ve an issue with halal meat you should have an issue with all meat

I totally agree with this. I find it really hypocritical to object to halal slaughter but not other forms of slaughter. Imo there is no such thing as human slaughter - it’s inherently inhumane.

*humane not human!!

If people want to be vegetarian that's up to them.

But I think it's really unfair to denounce all animal farming as cruel and immoral or extrapolate the worst examples of farming across the globe and insinuate that's what all farming is like, which is what an awful lot of non meat eaters seem to do.

Don't eat meat if you don't want to, but don't try and pretend that there isn't also a huge amount of death and destruction involved in producing 'plant based' food because it doesn't fit your view.

We should be focusing on promoting local, sustainable and high welfare food of all types rather that deflecting from that by arguing over meat or non meat eating.

I'm surprised that if it's something you feel so passionately about you're with someone who doesn't share your opinion on it. Just as it's quite a big thing and clearly something very important to you. I have some moral lines (non food related) that would mean I'm incompatible with people who don't share them. I think it's a bit strange to be with someone who does something you consider to be cruel, like you say you feel about meat eating.

Yabu to lecture him and pass judgment on his morals or the morals of anyone who eats meat. Nobody likes listening to a preachy vegetarian or vegan.

We should be focusing on promoting local, sustainable and high welfare food of all types rather that deflecting from that by arguing over meat or non meat eating.

I don’t think anyone should be compelled to promote killing animals if they morally disagree with it. I’ve no objection to you doing so, but why should a vegetarian have to when they think it’s wrong?

AIBU and a bigot for thinking modern farming is immoral?

Is not the same as your title - AIBU for not eating meat on moral grounds?

YANBU re your title but YABU re all modern farming and moral certainty.

You are entitled to your view and to chose what you eat.

But equally, he is entitled to his view and it would damage the relationship for him to feel you are judging him.

Can't you just agree to disagree? If not, I can't see your relationship lasting.

Don't eat meat if you don't want to, but don't try and pretend that there isn't also a huge amount of death and destruction involved in producing 'plant based' food because it doesn't fit your view.

What death and destruction is involved in producing plant based food?

Can't you just agree to disagree? If not, I can't see your relationship lasting. This
It's amazing this has only just come up in your twelve years together.

Agree with you OP. He sounds like a moron.

What death and destruction is involved in producing plant based food?

Not sure if this is specifically what that poster meant, but generally people making these comments are referring to animals killed in the harvesting of crops. Many rodents, birds, small mammals and insects are killed when plants are harvested.

Of course, this is only part of the story; a huge proportion of agricultural land is used for the production of animal feed, despite meat and animal products only providing us with a fraction of our calories (it takes about 100 calories of grain to produce just 12 calories of chicken or 3 calories worth of beef, so the wastage is huge). Therefore, by going vegan you are still reducing the number of animals killed in crop production, even if you personally are eating more plants.

If the whole world were to go vegan, we would require less agricultural land to feed the global population despite the increased plant consumption.

@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire

Don't eat meat if you don't want to, but don't try and pretend that there isn't also a huge amount of death and destruction involved in producing 'plant based' food because it doesn't fit your view.

What death and destruction is involved in producing plant based food?

Well lettuces don't arrive in perfect condition in the supermarket without an arsenal of pesticides and pest controllers having protected them.

The slugs, caterpillars, rabbits, pigeons, mice, deer, moles etc don't just all have a gentleman's agreement with the lettuce farmer to stay away from their crops.

@ClaraJude

What death and destruction is involved in producing plant based food?

Not sure if this is specifically what that poster meant, but generally people making these comments are referring to animals killed in the harvesting of crops. Many rodents, birds, small mammals and insects are killed when plants are harvested.

Of course, this is only part of the story; a huge proportion of agricultural land is used for the production of animal feed, despite meat and animal products only providing us with a fraction of our calories (it takes about 100 calories of grain to produce just 12 calories of chicken or 3 calories worth of beef, so the wastage is huge). Therefore, by going vegan you are still reducing the number of animals killed in crop production, even if you personally are eating more plants.

If the whole world were to go vegan, we would require less agricultural land to feed the global population despite the increased plant consumption.

I understand insects but have always been a bit confused about rabbits and other small mammals. Aren't those harvesting machines quite loud? Wouldn't most small animals run away before the machine reached them?

Is it really the first time in 12 years that your partner heard you talk about how you feel about eating meat? Why did he think you didn't eat meat before, what did you tell him? How often do you have to explain your habit to others in his presence?

The slugs, caterpillars, rabbits, pigeons, mice, deer, moles etc don't just all have a gentleman's agreement with the lettuce farmer to stay away from their crops.

No but I doubt very much they like loud machinary. Excluding ill and injured animals, I image 99.9% of them will run away from the noise.