To ask the mask police to please PLEASE stop

[PennyDreadfuI]

Another mask thread but I'm not going to apologise because I'm absolutely at the end of my tether with this sort of thing.

I can't wear a mask because I have trigeminal neuralgia and I've lost count of the stares, comments and filthy looks I've had (and yes, I do wear a lanyard, even though I'm not keen on advertising the fact that I have a hidden health condition). I've heard of people not being allowed on buses, being challenged by staff to explain their reason for exemption and being told they can't enter shops despite being exempt (none of which is legal). I've been told I should wear a visor (I can't, and they're next to useless anyway - Scotland have just banned them unless they're worn with a mask), that I should just stay at home (I can't and neither do government guidelines suggest I should), that I shouldn't use buses (I don't drive and can't walk long distances or cycle because I have inflammatory arthritis) and that I'm selfish (I'm not - if I could wear a mask, I would).

I understand this is a contentious issue but please, can people just think for a minute before they judge or comment? Exemptions are there for a reason - those who are sticklers for The Rules should surely accept and respect this one, too. It's awful that people are too scared to go out for fear of what's essentially discrimination.

The pandemic is bad enough by itself - let's not lose our sense of empathy and humanity, too.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme
I agree. But this thread is about self appointed vigilantes taking it upon themselves to ‘challenge’ non mask wearers. That isn’t ok.

Take personal responsibility.

If you don’t feel safe then take extra precautions that are within your control.

Then either ask them to move, or move yourself.

Don't let some of the posters on MN hear you say that. You have no right to ask them to move and I can't always move - I need to sit down so if there are no seats available moving isn't an option.

There's nowhere that I know where I can get a respirator mask fitted. It seems utterly verboten to even hint that people who can't wear masks should try to mitigate risk in other ways and yet the extremely vulnerable who are reliant on other people wearing masks and SD are told that it's down to us to take all steps to protect ourselves - even impossible ones - or to stay at home. Good to see disability discrimination alive and well against certain members of society.

If you don’t feel safe then take extra precautions that are within your control.

Such as what?

N95 masks available here
www.hivepharmacy.com/face-masks

And more here
protectu.co.uk/Category/respiratory_protection_dust_face_mist_masks

Supply chains aren’t as stretched now. And they don’t need to be professionally fitted to be better than a cloth mask.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

If you don’t feel safe then take extra precautions that are within your control.

Such as what?

Such as moving away from people who encroach on your space even if that means a slower journey. Such as wearing a better quality mask.

I don’t understand this lack of personal responsibility.

I work with someone highly vulnerable. She chooses to leave home early now and if she feels uncomfortable on a bus or train (she gets both) she gets off and waits for the next one. Inconvenient but she is taking action she feels appropriate to safeguard herself. She doesn’t like asking people not to encroach on her space but she recognises that’s her issue.

Why should she have to though? How much extra does that cost her in bus fare? How much longer does it take her if she has to wait for multiple buses?

It amazes me how people are so vocally protesting the rights of people who can't wear masks and yet no one gives a shit about people like this lady - having to leave home earlier, get off of buses and wait for others, presumably having to pay each time because she is clinically vulnerable. Why is she not as important as the people who can't wear masks? Why don't her rights matter?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Then either ask them to move, or move yourself.

Don't let some of the posters on MN hear you say that. You have no right to ask them to move and I can't always move - I need to sit down so if there are no seats available moving isn't an option.

There's nowhere that I know where I can get a respirator mask fitted. It seems utterly verboten to even hint that people who can't wear masks should try to mitigate risk in other ways and yet the extremely vulnerable who are reliant on other people wearing masks and SD are told that it's down to us to take all steps to protect ourselves - even impossible ones - or to stay at home. Good to see disability discrimination alive and well against certain members of society.

If you can get onto a bus you can get back off it. If you can get into a shop you can move away from a person.

Are you saying that people who can’t wear masks can’t leave their homes? Why does your disability or vulnerability trump theirs?

MMN123 I'm not worried for myself but for people I support - all of whom are technically legally exempt but most of whom choose to wear masks anyway because their learning disabilities and autism don't stop them being decent human beings. The few of my clients who genuinely can't tolerate masks happen also to be medically high risk. They shouldn't have to stay at home because of the mask refusers.

I was out with a medically vulnerable lady who genuinely can't wear a mask, and two clients with autism and learning disabilities who do wear masks when the group argued with the security guard. He challenged us too and I explained politely and briefly without details and took off my rucksack to offer proof but he waved us through.

I was glad he stopped the group behind us and didn't let them through, though don't know what happened in the end. The group of wonts would have been putting a genuine can't at risk.

I know you say you're not putting the onus on the vulnerable, but saying nobody should be challenged and the vulnerable should by respirator masks is disingenuous. The vulnerable are often the very people who genuinely can't wear masks. Most people not wearing them actually could.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I work with someone highly vulnerable. She chooses to leave home early now and if she feels uncomfortable on a bus or train (she gets both) she gets off and waits for the next one. Inconvenient but she is taking action she feels appropriate to safeguard herself. She doesn’t like asking people not to encroach on her space but she recognises that’s her issue.

Why should she have to though? How much extra does that cost her in bus fare? How much longer does it take her if she has to wait for multiple buses?

It amazes me how people are so vocally protesting the rights of people who can't wear masks and yet no one gives a shit about people like this lady - having to leave home earlier, get off of buses and wait for others, presumably having to pay each time because she is clinically vulnerable. Why is she not as important as the people who can't wear masks? Why don't her rights matter?

Because she can.

People who cannot wear masks can’t. It’s not a choice.

She can either accept being 2m from people without masks or she can get off the bus or train. She can stay in an overcrowded train or she can leave. She has choices and she makes the choices she feels protect her. Her rights aren’t being infringed. Except by dickheads who remove to step back when there is space.

People who cannot wear masks have no choice. They can’t choose to be on a bus or train with a mask. They cannot wear a mask.

The people with choices must protect the people without choices.

Such as moving away from people who encroach on your space even if that means a slower journey. Such as wearing a better quality mask.

I don’t understand this lack of personal responsibility.

But you are ignorant anyone telling you that people outside of healthcare don't have access to fit tested n95 masks. You keep saying the answer is to wear one - from where to we get them?

As for moving away - it isn't always an option. I can't move away from customers that I'm serving at work. If I'm on a bus or a train I can't keep getting off and waiting for the next one - which might be exactly the same from the aspect of non mask wearers. Here bus fare is a flat fee and you have to pay each time you board a bus so one stop or twenty stops it's the same fare. I could be getting off the bus at every stop and then paying again only to go one stop each time.

As I said above, why are you only concerned with the rights of non mask wearers? How about the rights of the extremely vulnerable? Why should they have to pay £12 for a £3 bus journey just because of their medical condition? The non mask wearing passengers aren't having to.pay that.

My son can't wear a mask. He hasn't been on public transport for years because he cannot cope with that busy environment due to his severe autism.He also can't cope with supermarkets which means that I have to make alternative arrangements for shopping. Lots of people have to do things differently because of their needs/disability.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

MMN123 I'm not worried for myself but for people I support - all of whom are technically legally exempt but most of whom choose to wear masks anyway because their learning disabilities and autism don't stop them being decent human beings. The few of my clients who genuinely can't tolerate masks happen also to be medically high risk. They shouldn't have to stay at home because of the mask refusers.

I was out with a medically vulnerable lady who genuinely can't wear a mask, and two clients with autism and learning disabilities who do wear masks when the group argued with the security guard. He challenged us too and I explained politely and briefly without details and took off my rucksack to offer proof but he waved us through.

I was glad he stopped the group behind us and didn't let them through, though don't know what happened in the end. The group of wonts would have been putting a genuine can't at risk.

I know you say you're not putting the onus on the vulnerable, but saying nobody should be challenged and the vulnerable should by respirator masks is disingenuous. The vulnerable are often the very people who genuinely can't wear masks. Most people not wearing them actually could.

I didn’t say they should. I said they could.

Of course people who can wear masks should do so. That isn’t the debate.

The debate is whether the general public should be challenging non mask wearers they think should have masks on. Clearly they shouldn’t.

Just as I wouldn’t demand to know why someone is high risk.

If you can get onto a bus you can get back off it. If you can get into a shop you can move away from a person.

Yes you can get off the bus, if you can afford to keep paying each time and have the time available to keep waiting twenty minutes for the next bus and possibly the next bus too. How is that at all affordable or practical?

Are you saying that people who can’t wear masks can’t leave their homes? Why does your disability or vulnerability trump theirs?

Are you saying the extremely clinically vulnerable can't leave their homes? Why do non mask wearers rights trump other people's disability rights?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Such as moving away from people who encroach on your space even if that means a slower journey. Such as wearing a better quality mask.

I don’t understand this lack of personal responsibility.

But you are ignorant anyone telling you that people outside of healthcare don't have access to fit tested n95 masks. You keep saying the answer is to wear one - from where to we get them?

As for moving away - it isn't always an option. I can't move away from customers that I'm serving at work. If I'm on a bus or a train I can't keep getting off and waiting for the next one - which might be exactly the same from the aspect of non mask wearers. Here bus fare is a flat fee and you have to pay each time you board a bus so one stop or twenty stops it's the same fare. I could be getting off the bus at every stop and then paying again only to go one stop each time.

As I said above, why are you only concerned with the rights of non mask wearers? How about the rights of the extremely vulnerable? Why should they have to pay £12 for a £3 bus journey just because of their medical condition? The non mask wearing passengers aren't having to.pay that.

I’ve linked to where you can buy masks.

Where I live it’s a fixed bus fare within a fixed time no matter how many changes. Changing trains costs nothing.

And I’ve explained why. Vulnerable people have a choice. Folk who can’t wear masks have no choice.

And while you are at work it’s an employment issue. Talk to your union.

MMN123 in areas with high rates of non mask wearing someone does need to be politely challenging the non mask wearers. Ideally a security guard. This "nobody else's business" attitude feeds the won't wear a mask people to the cost of the few who can't. It is everyone's responsibility and everyone's business, though obviously not appropriate to challenge people as a private individual it is appropriate for businesses and services to do so on their premises.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

If you can get onto a bus you can get back off it. If you can get into a shop you can move away from a person.

Yes you can get off the bus, if you can afford to keep paying each time and have the time available to keep waiting twenty minutes for the next bus and possibly the next bus too. How is that at all affordable or practical?

Are you saying that people who can’t wear masks can’t leave their homes? Why does your disability or vulnerability trump theirs?

Are you saying the extremely clinically vulnerable can't leave their homes? Why do non mask wearers rights trump other people's disability rights?

You can choose to leave early if you are worried about the impact on your health if you are on transport with people without masks. Or you can stay on the transport with them. Your choice.

Here there is no charge to change bus or train. Don’t know if that’s the case elsewhere.

So you take a bit longer at worst.

Whereas if you insist your rights trump non mask wearers they can’t leave their homes.

You can always leave your home. You just need to make adjustments based on your personal choices.

They can only leave home if people stop harassing them.

She can either accept being 2m from people without masks or she can get off the bus or train. She can stay in an overcrowded train or she can leave. She has choices and she makes the choices she feels protect her. Her rights aren’t being infringed. Except by dickheads who remove to step back when there is space.

Of course her rights are being infringed. How practical is it to have to continually get on and off the bus or train, have to wait for the next one and then repeat the process? I could feasibly spend half of my days wages just getting to work if I had to keep getting off of the bus, waiting for the next one and paying full fare again. Then repeat on the journey home and I've worked for nothing - but that's not infringing on my rights?

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

MMN123 in areas with high rates of non mask wearing someone does need to be politely challenging the non mask wearers. Ideally a security guard. This "nobody else's business" attitude feeds the won't wear a mask people to the cost of the few who can't. It is everyone's responsibility and everyone's business, though obviously not appropriate to challenge people as a private individual it is appropriate for businesses and services to do so on their premises.

I said that pages ago. But not the general public. Businesses and companies who handle it well will get more custom and fewer complaints.

Vulnerable people and folk who genuinely can't wear masks are often the same people. They are dealt a double whammy by people who are not vulnerable and could wear masks but just don't like them.

It's not vulnerable people versus folk who can't wear masks!

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

She can either accept being 2m from people without masks or she can get off the bus or train. She can stay in an overcrowded train or she can leave. She has choices and she makes the choices she feels protect her. Her rights aren’t being infringed. Except by dickheads who remove to step back when there is space.

Of course her rights are being infringed. How practical is it to have to continually get on and off the bus or train, have to wait for the next one and then repeat the process? I could feasibly spend half of my days wages just getting to work if I had to keep getting off of the bus, waiting for the next one and paying full fare again. Then repeat on the journey home and I've worked for nothing - but that's not infringing on my rights?

As I said, here you aren’t charged again. No idea about the rest of the UK.

My colleague rarely needs to change bus or train - probably twice a week. She only changes if there are people without masks closer than 2m. That isn’t an everyday occurrence on her journey. But she leaves early every day just in case and has a coffee before work.

Trigeminal neuralgia- nightmare. I’m so sorry you have to deal with that.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

Vulnerable people and folk who genuinely can't wear masks are often the same people. They are dealt a double whammy by people who are not vulnerable and could wear masks but just don't like them.

It's not vulnerable people versus folk who can't wear masks!

I’m not talking about people who don’t like masks.

I think it may take my Dd several hours to make her normally 1 hour journey to school in these circumstances.

But thank you for the link to the masks. Anything is better than nothing, which in my area is anywhere and everywhere.

@MMN123

And while you are at work it’s an employment issue. Talk to your union.

What can my employer do? That can't van non mask wearers, we can't get fit tested n95 masks - what exactly can they do?

I’ve linked to where you can buy masks.

Whereabouts? I haven't seen the link. Do they fit test them?

Here there is no charge to change bus or train. Don’t know if that’s the case elsewhere

Not the case here. Trains there's no charge but buses you pay a flat fee every time you board. It's not only cost it's time. Buses run every 20 minutes for example. About ten stops from home to work - I cannot afford to get on and off ten buses paying full fare each time and waiting twenty minutes each time. That's ridiculous and it's also discrimination.

So you take a bit longer at worst.