DH asked me what do cows eat. AIBU to divorce him immediately?

[TheIckabog]

We were watching a program about a fancy hotel where they have their own cows. There was a clip of the cows being hand fed apples.

DH exclaimed in surprise ‘I didn’t know cows eat apples!’ He then paused and said, ‘What DO cows eat?’ whilst looking genuinely puzzled.

I said to him what do you think they do all day in the fields? They eat grass/hay etc, how do you not know this? DH then shrugged and said he’d never really thought about it.

He is a well educated intelligent man in his 40s. We also grew up/live in a place where dairy production accounts for a large percent of the export, so it’s not like he’s never seen a cow in a field or on a farm before.

I am aghast. AIBU to divorce him immediately? I really can’t see any other option to be honest

But if we cut out the “middle man” farmed animals and just ate the farmed plants, we would be able to fed all the humans

See this is a massive oversimplification unfortunately. There is this view held by a huge number of people that the whole word could reject animal products tomorrow and we’d all be absolutely hunky dory with regard to a supply of readily available and nutritionally acceptable food. It simply isn’t true. Whilst there are undoubtedly huge amounts of land which could be used to produce crops suitable for human consumption, there is an absolutely enormous area of the globe that is simply unable to. Take the hill farms of Cumbria, the outer Hebrides, Welsh marsh lands etc etc. There’s a reason why certain areas of the U.K. predominantly support one type of farming and it’s because the land simply will not grow crops for human consumption. So their best bet is to grow grass and raise native animals who can thrive on the land and in that climate in order to place a food value on that land. As a numbers exercise it stacks up- we appear to have the required number of acres to grow the required amount of food. But when you consider how hostile some of those acres can be, it becomes less and less of a watertight argument for stopping animal agriculture.

You can eye roll at me all you like, it won’t change my view and how I feel about it. I don’t have to tell myself anything, I know it to be true. Just like I’m only one person sat here telling you that my cows and calves don’t cry for each other, you’re only one anonymous voice on the internet telling me that they do. I’ve just moved 5 calves out of the calving pen, none of them more than 2 days old, not one of the calves made a fuss, nor were their mothers “crying for their calves”. They are all safe in their new housing and fully fed and watered. But obviously you must know better- you being an anonymous voice on the internet and all.

Didn’t for a second think I’d change your views. I just don’t like lies. Cows cry for their calves. Calves cry for their mum. Fact.
I’m sure all the calves are feeling really ‘safe’, without their mum. 🙄
I’ve no doubt they’ll be fed and watered, they’re money after all.
And I’ve no doubt you sleep well, having no conscience and all.

Didn’t for a second think I’d change your views. I just don’t like lies. Cows cry for their calves. Calves cry for their mum. Fact.
I’m sure all the calves are feeling really ‘safe’, without their mum. 🙄
I’ve no doubt they’ll be fed and watered, they’re money after all.
And I’ve no doubt you sleep well, having no conscience and all.

Out of interest, do you live in the countryside, or in a town/city?

@BadTattoosAndSmellLikeBooze

You can eye roll at me all you like, it won’t change my view and how I feel about it. I don’t have to tell myself anything, I know it to be true. Just like I’m only one person sat here telling you that my cows and calves don’t cry for each other, you’re only one anonymous voice on the internet telling me that they do. I’ve just moved 5 calves out of the calving pen, none of them more than 2 days old, not one of the calves made a fuss, nor were their mothers “crying for their calves”. They are all safe in their new housing and fully fed and watered. But obviously you must know better- you being an anonymous voice on the internet and all.

Didn’t for a second think I’d change your views. I just don’t like lies. Cows cry for their calves. Calves cry for their mum. Fact.
I’m sure all the calves are feeling really ‘safe’, without their mum. 🙄
I’ve no doubt they’ll be fed and watered, they’re money after all.
And I’ve no doubt you sleep well, having no conscience and all.

You can call me a liar until you’re blue in the face. It doesn’t make me one. See also: no conscience. I’m telling you what happens on my farm every single day. Unless you’re here when I am (in which case you must be either my husband or one of my children- your behaviour suggests the latter) then you can’t possibly tell me that I’m lying about something I’ve done day in, day out for goodness knows how many years. Making general assumptions is fine even if they are wrong, but don’t mistake your assumptions for fact.

Out of interest, do you live in the countryside, or in a town/city?

City now but countryside until a few years ago. Have family who have a farm. I’m vegan. My kids and partner and meat. People can do whatever they want but just don’t lie. Farmers saying cows don’t cry for their young are as bad as some of the extreme animal activist information. Just be truthful. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Cows cry for their calves. Calves cry for their mum. Fact.

Disney type movies are not facts.

There is this view held by a huge number of people that the whole word could reject animal products tomorrow and we’d all be absolutely hunky dory with regard to a supply of readily available and nutritionally acceptable food. It simply isn’t true

No sensible person thinks that things could change from tomorrow 😂 I’m afraid it’s you who’s oversimplifying things in this case.
Let’s have a conversation about how much of eating animals is necessary and good for people and the world, and how much isn’t. That’s sensible isn’t it?

You can call me a liar until you’re blue in the face. It doesn’t make me one. See also: no conscience. I’m telling you what happens on my farm every single day. Unless you’re here when I am (in which case you must be either my husband or one of my children- your behaviour suggests the latter) then you can’t possibly tell me that I’m lying about something I’ve done day in, day out for goodness knows how many years. Making general assumptions is fine even if they are wrong, but don’t mistake your assumptions for fact.

Your cows and calves will cry. My farming family members say that they just don’t notice it anymore. It doesn’t affect them. The same will be true for you, your cows will be no different.

Yy I also don’t believe that mother and child separated aren’t bothered and don’t really notice I’m afraid.

@VampireBill , Well thank you I had some lovely eggs for breakfast that some ones girls laid for me .Thank you for getting up early every morning x

@BadTattoosAndSmellLikeBooze I'm glad that you speak from some experience of countryside life. Nothing more infuriating than a city dweller determined to tell a country person about the country

I've been on a few dairy farms in my time. I think there are farms and there are farms. I've known cows and calves very clearly not wanting to be separated, and I've known them leave one another without a backwards glance. I think both yours and @NoParticularPattern's experiences are both true.

FWIW I'm a meat eater but I eat very little dairy, partly because of my experiences on farms. They seem to vary so much, and I decided that although on decent farms I wasn't worried about welfare, the entire concept of keeping cows for milk seemed to me like something I wanted no part in.

That should have said ‘my kids and partner EAT meat.

@MsWonderful I broadly agree with you. I still think that we have to look at agriculture in the broader picture of capitalism, human population and globalism, for both prevention of future pandemics and sustainability of human and other life on this planet. So, y'know, just the small stuff. I'm not convinced that changing food/meat production to a more sustainable model is going to do much in itself without some difficult conversations and serious human population behaviour change around capitalism and global society.

Sustainability, it be complicated

@BadTattoosAndSmellLikeBooze

You can call me a liar until you’re blue in the face. It doesn’t make me one. See also: no conscience. I’m telling you what happens on my farm every single day. Unless you’re here when I am (in which case you must be either my husband or one of my children- your behaviour suggests the latter) then you can’t possibly tell me that I’m lying about something I’ve done day in, day out for goodness knows how many years. Making general assumptions is fine even if they are wrong, but don’t mistake your assumptions for fact.

Your cows and calves will cry. My farming family members say that they just don’t notice it anymore. It doesn’t affect them. The same will be true for you, your cows will be no different.

I’ll say it again. They don’t “cry”. Despite your apparent desire to portray me as such, I’m not some thick country yokel who just doesn’t notice. Nor am I some heartless bastard that just doesn’t care. I’m perfectly happy to admit that the calves cry out when we disbud them, they cry when we change their social groups around because some calves are going off to be sold, they definitely cried when they ran out of cake because our feed suppliers got flooded out and we’re a day late with delivery (don’t worry, they got some rolled barley but obviously wasn’t to their tastes). I’m not a thick uncaring idiot who just doesn’t notice, I’m telling you that when we move the calves out of the calving pen and the mothers back into the big sheds they don’t cry. I’m also not saying that my experience is the only experience. But telling me I’m wrong about something I literally see every day isn’t really that sensible is it?

I've been on a few dairy farms in my time. I think there are farms and there are farms. I've known cows and calves very clearly not wanting to be separated, and I've known them leave one another without a backwards glance. I think both yours and @NoParticularPattern's experiences are both true.

I’ve seen cows and calves separated on 4 different farms. They’ve all cried. We have a friend who is a vet where we used to live, he says the only cow he ever seen not cry when separated was extremely ill after giving birth and died 2 days later.

I’m sure some farms are worse than others but personally I don’t think farming can ever happen without animal suffering. Some people are oblivious to that, some prefer not to think about it, some deliberately ignore it. That’s fine, farming isn’t illegal but let’s not a lie and pretend the cows happily watch their calves be taken from them. People should know the truth to make an informed choice.

@MsWonderful

There is this view held by a huge number of people that the whole word could reject animal products tomorrow and we’d all be absolutely hunky dory with regard to a supply of readily available and nutritionally acceptable food. It simply isn’t true

No sensible person thinks that things could change from tomorrow 😂 I’m afraid it’s you who’s oversimplifying things in this case.
Let’s have a conversation about how much of eating animals is necessary and good for people and the world, and how much isn’t. That’s sensible isn’t it?

That’s my point. The loud voices shouting things like this aren’t sensible. But on a very basic scale they’re right. We do have enough land on the planet to feed the planet without using animals. What we don’t have on the planet is enough land in the correct climates that is capable of supporting crops which are directly for human consumption. And that is the oversimplification that these non sensible voices are making. That if the world simply went vegan overnight then we would be just fine because all the land that supports animal agriculture could just be ploughed up and turned into land supporting humans instead. If you can plough a rough hill side in Cumbria and have it support as many humans as the sheep that currently occupy it do, then you’re a better farmer than most I know!

Despite your apparent desire to portray me as such, I’m not some thick country yokel who just doesn’t notice. Nor am I some heartless bastard that just doesn’t care.

I haven’t said you are thick or tried to portray you as thick. I said that you just won’t notice or be affected by the crying.
Do I think you are heartless about animals? Yes, I think farmers have to be in order to do their ‘job’.

There is a huge amount of information out there about farming but sadly lots of it comes with a vegan agenda

Tbh everything you’re saying is coming with a pro-farming agenda and it still sounds absolutely dystopian and cruel to me.

@BadTattoosAndSmellLikeBooze

Despite your apparent desire to portray me as such, I’m not some thick country yokel who just doesn’t notice. Nor am I some heartless bastard that just doesn’t care.

I haven’t said you are thick or tried to portray you as thick. I said that you just won’t notice or be affected by the crying.
Do I think you are heartless about animals? Yes, I think farmers have to be in order to do their ‘job’.

No you’re right. I just wander about not noticing when they cry and carrying on regardless. That’s absolutely exactly how I go about my daily life

We have a friend who is a vet where we used to live, he says the only cow he ever seen not cry when separated was extremely ill after giving birth and died 2 days later. Vets aren't there when calves are separated from their mothers. Why would they be?

@ClaraJude

There is a huge amount of information out there about farming but sadly lots of it comes with a vegan agenda

Tbh everything you’re saying is coming with a pro-farming agenda and it still sounds absolutely dystopian and cruel to me.

It is really difficult to just get the facts. I actually think extreme vegan views and animal activists put a lot of people off being vegan or even from questioning farming. Most people don’t like to be extreme on either end. Equally farmer not telling the truth about what farming really is really annoys me.

@NoParticularPattern
Let’s take it as read that no one on this thread is shouting oversimplifications about everyone going vegan tomorrow, because no one is as far as I can see.

@ClaraJude

There is a huge amount of information out there about farming but sadly lots of it comes with a vegan agenda

Tbh everything you’re saying is coming with a pro-farming agenda and it still sounds absolutely dystopian and cruel to me.

Yes but the key difference here is that I am upfront and honest about being a farmer from the word go. Lots of the misinformation out there is not upfront about their agenda and they deliberately manipulate people’s emotions in order to further their cause. I’ve done neither. I’ve told you we are farmers, I’ve given an honest run down of everything I’ve been asked about. Just because others are saying I’m lying does not make it true. I don’t deny that there are undoubtedly farms out there where the information they share is the truth, but they don’t, and won’t ever, accept that a majority of farms could not be further from their apparent truth.

I’m not anti vegan in the same way as they are anti farmer. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their dietary choices, I just wish that people wouldn’t spout worst case scenarios as if they are applicable across the board.

I’m sure some farms are worse than others but personally I don’t think farming can ever happen without animal suffering. Some people are oblivious to that, some prefer not to think about it, some deliberately ignore it. That’s fine, farming isn’t illegal but let’s not a lie and pretend the cows happily watch their calves be taken from them. People should know the truth to make an informed choice.

I'm not trying to deny your experience. But you do seem to be trying to deny the experience of @NoParticularPattern and myself.

[quote MsWonderful]@NoParticularPattern
Let’s take it as read that no one on this thread is shouting oversimplifications about everyone going vegan tomorrow, because no one is as far as I can see.[/quote]
I was referring to your point about cutting out the middle man of animal agriculture actually, but I can see I am quite obviously flogging the proverbial dead horse!