DH asked me what do cows eat. AIBU to divorce him immediately?

[TheIckabog]

We were watching a program about a fancy hotel where they have their own cows. There was a clip of the cows being hand fed apples.

DH exclaimed in surprise ‘I didn’t know cows eat apples!’ He then paused and said, ‘What DO cows eat?’ whilst looking genuinely puzzled.

I said to him what do you think they do all day in the fields? They eat grass/hay etc, how do you not know this? DH then shrugged and said he’d never really thought about it.

He is a well educated intelligent man in his 40s. We also grew up/live in a place where dairy production accounts for a large percent of the export, so it’s not like he’s never seen a cow in a field or on a farm before.

I am aghast. AIBU to divorce him immediately? I really can’t see any other option to be honest

[quote MsWonderful]@derxa sorry I’m clearly no expert!
So is it correct that calves are usually taken away from their mothers soon after birth in the dairy industry?[/quote]
Yes it's true.

Fortunately or unfortunately depending on which way you look at it neither the cows or calves seem to mind that much usually. The calves especially aren't at all bothered.

beef cows on the other hand would try and murder you if you tried to take their calf from them.

All the dairy farmers I know would be happy to show anyone round who wanted to see for themselves.

My late DH said that he didn't know that Prince Charles had any brothers, he thought that Princess Margaret was older than the Queen and the song 'Fields of Barley' was 'Fields of Bali'. And this was a well educated professional man (chartered surveyor) but in many ways just plain THICK

My husband's a big Red Dwarf fan. Has been since a young teen. We saw a documentary last night with Craig Charles where he referred to himself as a person of colour. My husband genuinely was flummoxed and said is it weird i never thought of Lister as a black man

@booearing

My dad thought milk came from the milk man he didn't know it was from cows.

Right... How did he think the milk man produced the milk?

@Scrowy I find that hard to believe tbh. Mammals nurture and protect their young. It would be odd if they just weren’t bothered about them being taken away.
If it is true, maybe the cows are so used to having their babies taken from them that they’ve just given up?

@Ineedamuchbiggerhouse

My husband's a big Red Dwarf fan. Has been since a young teen. We saw a documentary last night with Craig Charles where he referred to himself as a person of colour. My husband genuinely was flummoxed and said is it weird i never thought of Lister as a black man

I know what he means though. Lister’s race was never mentioned really. He was simply a human. If I was asked to talk about his character his race would be far down the list.

[quote MsWonderful]@Scrowy I find that hard to believe tbh. Mammals nurture and protect their young. It would be odd if they just weren’t bothered about them being taken away.
If it is true, maybe the cows are so used to having their babies taken from them that they’ve just given up?[/quote]
Or perhaps cows aren't humans experiencing human emotions and they are actually cows with cowy emotions which include moving on pretty quickly when they lose their young.

For someone who claims not to know anything about farming you are certainly keen on bovine psychology. I highly recommend the work of Temple Grandin if it's something you are really interested in finding out more about.

@Scrowy, I was actually watching a video the other day showing a slaughterhouse designed by Temple Grandin! It was certainly a lot calmer than some of the other horror shows that are on YouTube.
Just seems a bit odd that, for example, dogs and cats who have given birth and don’t have their offspring for whatever reason are described as ‘pining’ for them, but cows apparently mysteriously don’t have these feelings or drive to protect their young. Seems like evolution has made a bit of a fuck up there. Although obviously it’s advantageous to people in the dairy industry.
But no, I don’t believe that there’s no trauma caused to cow mother or cow child by separating them soon after birth. I just don’t believe it.

I’m meeting Temple Grandin online next week to talk about autism, I’m now seriously considering adding a session on cows after reading all this! 🐮

Seems like evolution has made a bit of a fuck up there. Although obviously it’s advantageous to people in the dairy industry. That may well be the case.
We have sheep and there is a wide variation in the way newly lambed sheep respond to their lambs. Some abandon them straight away and others are very protective. Some ewes try to steal others' lambs before they give birth.
Lambs do best if their mothers suckle them for up to five months so the genetic trait of 'motherliness' is passed on.

@derxa yes I see what you mean. Probably not evolution’s fault though, more likely to be that the calves who have not had the opportunity to be mothered therefore haven’t learnt how to be mothers themselves. Although I think that there must be some level of instinct to protect their calves, or cows as a species would have died out long before now.

Teacher here: I once told Year 8 that the story of Pandora's box reminded me of Adam and Eve, a female succumbing to temptation and bringing evil into the world. One girl asked "who are Adam and Eve?" Her neighbour replied "First men on the moon, stupid !". I've also had a Year 11 student who thought the moon was the sun at night. When I said but sometimes they are both in the sky together, he answered triumphantly "but only in eclipses!" A sixth form Classics student was once surprised when I said Ostia was the port for Rome, as "surely in Roman times the continents were still joined together?"!

There have been various studies showing that separating calves from their mothers at birth has negative consequences for both cows and calves:

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150428081801.htm

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030219304175

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/29/mums-ask-when-cows-and-their-calves-separated-rise-ethical-milk-vegan

goveganworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Marchant-Forde-et-al-2002.-responses-cows-calves.pdf

It’s also worth looking at what happens in herds of wild bovines; cows suckle their calves for around 9 months, and the calves will stay with their mothers and grandmothers for their whole lives. Removing calves from their mothers at birth is such a fundamental interference with their natural behaviours that it’s hard to imagine how we could complacently assume the cows don’t mind (especially when the evidence suggests otherwise).

The killing of male calves at or very shortly after birth is also sadly still practiced in the U.K., although appears to be less common than it used to be: www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/26/dairy-dirty-secret-its-still-cheaper-to-kill-male-calves-than-to-rear-them

It might not be evolution at work, but humans breeding for temperament, perhaps?

Or perhaps farmers not wanting to admit to themselves that they’re causing harm to their animals?

It might not be evolution at work, but humans breeding for temperament

Evolution - The motherly and good milker ewe's lambs will be bigger and stronger and less likely to die
Breeding - The healthier and stronger lambs are more likely to be kept as breeding stock

But surely motherliness and good milkers can be the criterians for breeding? Its a long time since they were domesticated.

Sorry for perpetuating the cow duscussion

But surely motherliness and good milkers can be the criterians for breeding? Its a long time since they were domesticated Yes since a ewe with inverted teats or some other problem with feeding will be culled. Sad but true.

@derxa

But surely motherliness and good milkers can be the criterians for breeding? Its a long time since they were domesticated Yes since a ewe with inverted teats or some other problem with feeding will be culled. Sad but true.

But surely they are all eventually “culled” when they’ve outlived their usefulness to their owners? I don’t know about sheep farmers but afaik in the dairy industry cows are repeatedly made pregnant, calves usually taken away from them soon after birth, then when they’re too worn out/old for this to happen, they’re slaughtered. It’s a pretty unpleasant business really, imo.

If they have bred, and their offspring also breed, then they’ve passed on their genes.

If they have bred, and their offspring also breed, then they’ve passed on their genes. Only the best animals are selected for breeding. I'm a pedigree breeder.

So no natural evolution in play, just selective breeding?

So no natural evolution in play, just selective breeding? You can select as much as you like but you cannot control every behaviour sickness or weather event etc. Out of all that the strongest will survive. I can put a wonderful looking tup with the ewes but if he is infertile then he won't breed. My cousin lost 100s of sheep to the Beast From The East. Only the strongest survived that.

A close family friend who the dcs refer to as "uncle" was very ill . Dd2 who adores him and was late teens at the time, wondered if she should phone to see how he was, or would that be intrusive. I said " Why don't you get a card for him and drop him a line".
Cue puzzled silence and then "A line of what?"

I know cows like polo mints, so do horses.