About organ donation?

[hauntedvagina]

It's come to light recently that I have several family members who would not want to donate their organs when they die. However they would accept a donor organ if their life depended on it.

I'm a firm believer in organ donation, once I'm gone the doctors can help themselves to whatever they need. However I also believe that if you're not prepared to give, you shouldn't expect to receive. AIBU here?

@SerenDippitty

I’m sure there’d be outrage if a rule was brought in saying you can’t receive a blood transfusion unless you’re a blood donor!

No, there'd just be endless reasons why that's unfair.

In some ways people who donate organs are prioritised. For example, former living donors (e.g. for kidneys) are much higher priority than other clinically similar patients on transplant lists.

@OneForMeToo Donating your entire body to science is a great thing to do, but depending on your location and timing, there may not be a medical school needing a body at the time, and labs doing research tend only to need specific tissues. When I looked into it, potential body donors were asked to also be on the organ donor list, so best decisions could be made at the time - donating some organs then rest of body going to a med school might be feasible.

Guidance may have changed and depend on location, but it may be possible for you to do both.

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia those reasons including being ineligible due to having to use injected medication? There are always good and bad reasons for every occasion. That’s why it is so amazing that our healthcare system is free to everyone at point of use.

[quote Weneedmusicandtheatre]@InDeoEstMeaFiducia those reasons including being ineligible due to having to use injected medication? There are always good and bad reasons for every occasion. That’s why it is so amazing that our healthcare system is free to everyone at point of use.[/quote]
Of course there are valid reasons, which is why medicine should never be on a tit-for-tat basis or on the basis of must give to receive or based on morality, I agree.

I saw a close family friend and her children crumble after her husband was kept alive over the weekend and the "no hope, btw organs?" chat purposely had with her on a Monday when it better suited the hospital - after a weekend of being purposely left to hope a little

And you know this how?

Medical proffessionals have to decide whose worthy of a donor organ based on ethics. Judging on the basis of someones donation choice is not ethical.

I am happy to donate anything after I’ve died but I don’t think the recipients should be chosen on the basis of anything other than medical need.

I once had a really good idea.

Since no one owns a dead body, we could create a scheme whereby people could state their wishes about donation before they die with some sort of central register. Then, in the event of their death, we could consult the register, be 100% sure that was their wish, and act accordingly.

Who's with me ?

Since no one owns a dead body, we could create a scheme whereby people could state their wishes about donation before they die with some sort of central register. Then, in the event of their death, we could consult the register, be 100% sure that was their wish, and act accordingly.

Nope, family should always be consulted. Could you imagine if your child, sister, brother, parent, or anyone else you loved died, and you couldn't say your goodbye, or have any choice at all, just show up to the hospital and they are already in theatre.

I agree that it would be wrong to exclude people not on the register to donate from receiving an organ. However if you as an individual choose exclude yourself from the register I think you need to have a good think about why it's okay for you to accept an organ.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Since no one owns a dead body, we could create a scheme whereby people could state their wishes about donation before they die with some sort of central register. Then, in the event of their death, we could consult the register, be 100% sure that was their wish, and act accordingly.

Nope, family should always be consulted. Could you imagine if your child, sister, brother, parent, or anyone else you loved died, and you couldn't say your goodbye, or have any choice at all, just show up to the hospital and they are already in theatre.

Well I have an even better idea.

let's scrap the central registration scheme and put the money straight into the NHS. Admittedly it's not £350 million a week, but it might but a few biscuits.

What the fuck is the point of asking people to register as donors if those wishes mean fuck all ?

I was asking this question in 1983 when I signed my first donor card and before giving 84 pints of blood.

It's very simple. I want my organs to be used after I die so my time on this pitiful rock actually stand for something. Why are those wishes subservient to those of relatives who - if they love me quite as much as they claim - should be happy they are honoured ?

Why are those wishes subservient to those of relatives who - if they love me quite as much as they claim - should be happy they are honoured ?

Because they are the ones who will have to deal with the aftermath.

I donated my childs organs. However, I did it on my terms, it was my choice and I made my peace with it and had the chance to say goodbye.

To take that chance away from a family, who will have to live with it forever, is awful.

I'm not saying that your wishes should be overridden by your family, but they should at least have the chance to come to terms with things and not have a quick check, then whisked off to theatre.

I also have huge issue with the state being assumed to own our bodies when we die and make decisions based on a simple tick box possibly 20 or 30 years ago.

The main thing we should be focusing on is discussing our wishes and their importance with our families, so they can make the right choices. There just isn't enough discussion though.

Why are those wishes subservient to those of relatives who - if they love me quite as much as they claim - should be happy they are honoured ?

Because they are the ones who will have to deal with the aftermath.

Of knowing they disregarded the wishes of someone they love, I guess.

If my family love me as much as they claim, they'd be overjoyed that my organs went to others - as I have never stopped banging on about since 1983. After all, it's not their organs.

It's been 37 years, and no one has yet managed to persuade me to think differently. The final arbiter should be the wishes of the deceased.

DGRossetti do you want to actually read my posts, or just continue arguing with yourself?

I have clearly said that I am not saying your wishes should be overridden, but that the family should have a chance to say goodbye on their terms, and that, as it stands, we should all make our wishes known to our families as clearly as possible.

I signed up to have my organs donated years ago. At the time, I felt a bit weird about donating my eyes but, as time has gone on, I realised that I wouldn’t know if they took them anyway so why do I care?

I don’t know how I feel about my DD’s organs though. I’d like to think I would donate them but I seriously hope with every part of me that I am never in a position to have to decide. I would need to know with 100% certainty that there was nothing more that could be done for her before I would even consider it.

Knowing someone’s wishes in advance would help me to make the decision.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

DGRossetti do you want to actually read my posts, or just continue arguing with yourself?

I have clearly said that I am not saying your wishes should be overridden, but that the family should have a chance to say goodbye on their terms, and that, as it stands, we should all make our wishes known to our families as clearly as possible.

So we return to a central register that is consulted and that's and end to that.

Having a central register and asking relatives is mutually exclusive if the relatives can overrule the register.

i am well aware we are returning to the start again. But that's what happens when you try to maintain two parallel streams of logic. They go "poof".

It's down to personal choice really.
I removed myself from the organ register a while back because I don't want my sexual reproductive organs being used.

I give blood and I'll give bone marrow if needed

@isntthatnice

Reproductive organs are never donated in the UK without the specific consent from the person who has died. If you haven't opted out of the organ donation register, then the organs they may potentially ask your family about donating are:

heart, transplanted either as a whole organ or for heart valves
lung(s)
liver, transplanted either as an organ or for liver cells – unless the liver cells are for use for an Advanced Therapy Medicinal Product (ATMP)
kidneys
pancreas, transplanted either as a whole organ or pancreatic cells – unless the pancreatic cells are for use for an ATMP
intestinal organs (small bowel, stomach, abdominal wall, colon, spleen)
cornea
nervous tissue
arteries/veins/blood vessels
bone
muscle
tendon
skin
rectus fascia (tissue that encases abdominal muscles)

Source: www.gov.uk/government/consultations/opt-out-organ-donation-organs-and-tissues-excluded-from-the-new-system/outcome/quick-read-organs-and-tissues-to-be-excluded-from-the-opt-out-organ-donation-system-government-response

You can still join the register and still specify which organs you would consent to donating, and which ones you wouldn't. You can do that here if anyone is interested:

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/register-your-decision/register-your-details/?

It is a very personal choice about organ donation, and if people want to remove themselves from the register then that's their choice to make, but it shouldn't be on the basis that they're worried about donating their reproductive organs as they aren't included in the automatic opt in system.

So we return to a central register that is consulted and that's and end to that.

Lovely! Another behemouth state bureaucracy. We have a register already, there is no need for another bureaucracy. Presumed consent is a bad thing; there's no check on it, consulting with the family is one.

People can change their minds and forget to inform the registry, all sorts of things can happen in the space of one person's lifetime. They can even change religions to one that prohibits donation and forget to notify the registry, etc.

I'm amazed at the speed with which so many have quite happily pitched out their civil liberties.

Jesus wept! Look at the utter shitshow most of the state has become in the past ten years and you want to give them even more power?

Lovely! Another behemouth state bureaucracy. We have a register already

But it's useless, since whatever it says can be overridden by the family after your death.

So why not scrap it and save the money ? (As I suggested previously ...)

I've seen the testing that happens when brain death is suspected. It is very through and all observers are asked to report any movement they see during the process. It's very unlikely that any will be seen, because the testing isn't done unless the doctors are as certain as they can be that the tests will all fail.

I've also seen the process of matching organs with recipients and the preparation for organ retrieval. Utmost care is taken to respect the patient who has sadly died.

However, what may not be appreciated, is that when a decision to donate organs is made, it isn't like Casualty or Holby City. There are strict rules. The organs have to go to the highest patient on the list, not one who is close by. It can take a period of hours to days to match the organs. In the meantime, the relatives know that their loved one is dead (legally) , but they also see that they are warm and pink and breathing (with a ventilator). It can be traumatic.

The other type of donation, where the heart stops beating before donation, requires that the patient is taken to theatre within 5 minutes of death. It's hard to know that when your loved one dies, you have less than 5 minutes to say goodbye.

So no, I don't judge anyone who can't face the thought of their loved one's organs being taken. Feelings that you didn't fight hard enough, gave up too easily, etc., are common.

My father doesn't agree with donation. He thinks (wrongly) that a doctor won't try as hard if they know you're a donor. I wouldn't donate his organs out of respect for what I know his views are, regardless of my views.

So why not scrap it and save the money ? (As I suggested previously ...)

You think scrapping the registry we have now and creating another one is going to save money?!

Honestly, the idea of donating my organs freaks me out. I really don't like it at all.

But, I'm not a selfish prick so they can take it all. I know others need them far more than I will when I'm dead.

Having a central registerandasking relatives is mutually exclusive if the relatives can overrule the register.

I also feel very strongly about organ donation, but if I was in the position to donate my organs it would already be very traumatic for my children, and, in all honesty, if the process of donating my organs made things worse for them and they couldnt handle it, then their wishes, mental health, and ability to cope would be the factor that should be considered above all else.

If there was a central register and your child signed up to it, can you honestly say that you would be ok with showing up to the hospital and them already being in the theatre, and missing your chance to say goodbye to them?

It's easy to speak hypothetically, and talk about your wants when you're not the one who has to live with the consequences.

So we return to a central register that is consulted and that's and end to that. is too simplistic an idea.

I think signing up to a register, making your wishes clear to your family, and hoping that they abide by your wishes is probably about right. Most families do stick by the wishes of their loved ones, and the ones who can't would have huge emotional repercussions if they were forced into it.

Not wanting to donate your organs doesn't make you a 'selfish prick' at all.

The vast majority of us will not be in the position to donate anyway.