How many people have been failed by the NHS during lockdown?

[Polnm]

My DH has cancer.

His appointment in April was by phone
His appointment in August was postponed until October

How is this acceptable? Hospitals are empty whilst patients can’t access care.

GP appointments by zoom with a 2 week wait for a basic blood pressure check in person or to take bloods

Why isn’t there more publicity and outrage about this?

We can’t be the only family going through this surely?

@BovaryX A delightful impolite tone!

Sorry agree the language was blunt about clearing out elderly - yes they would have been formally discharged and yes, there is a systems issue in that there was inadequate PPE in care homes - which are privatised and agree this is crap.

but new lumps or bleeding would have been investigated

I live with a specialist health worker in a screening service. They graded the cases they had at the start of lockdown so urgent could be dealt with first as soon as they had the service up and running again and ceased the service. They were redeployed to a Covid ward. The service reopened as instructed by NHS about 6-8 weeks ago but they cannot run the extra capacity in private hospitals as they require patients to have self isolated for 2 weeks and most won’t. So running on the shortened lists in nhs trusts that have shorter isolation times.

Please don’t assume people are posting without any insight into the NHS system. And the stats are showing excess cancer/cvs/vascular deaths, so it’s not just anecdote.

But how would being able to walk into the GP surgery help- if you did not have an appointment they could not see you and the working hours are the same- plus you’d have to take more off to make your way to the surgery from work/take time off work to attend.

I don't work 8 - 6 so in normal times if I needed a GP appointment I would phone the surgery and book an appointment for a time I was home. They also opened until 8pm two days a week so I could have gone then had I worked 8 - 6.

I don't know what the solution is. What I do know is that this current solution is dangerous, that patients can't accurately describe their signs and symptoms over the phone - how do you accurately describe swelling or whether you are engaging your diaphragm when breathing? How do you realise that your pulse oxygen is 83% for god's sake? How is that safe?

I had a rheumatology phone consultation in March - consultant told me he wanted to see me ASAP and booked an appointment for June (hopefully we'll be back to normal by then he said). June comes around - still no face to face appointments - another telephone call. Told again we really need to see you now, you need urgent bloods doing and we need to assess you and get some scans done, we'll get you up here asap - I've got no appointment and can't get hold of anyone to chase an appointment so I've not been seen since mid December and I'm seen every three months. Is that safe? I've got elevated liver enzymes and macrocytosis due to medication - hasn't been monitored by the hospital since December. Let's keep our fingers crossed

@BovaryX I was asking you to rephrase your last post, so it could be understandable and I could therefore think about the point you were raising. Sigh. One can only try.

'And I think those who seek to dismiss or excuse this indefensible status quo are an impediment to any kind of reform to a seriously flawed institution.'

Ah I'm an impediment to reform then.

Again. Routine stuff was scaled down/halted to protect patients and staff. Now it's being restarted and the backlog is being addressed with extra screening, extra theatre lists and NHS contracts in private hospitals.

I do agree that GPs need to be back to normal service now but ime many are. Seems common sense to carry on with telephone and econsults where appropriate though.

Who has claimed in here that they deserved the nation to come out in their doorsteps and clap for them

Some forms of testing can be managed by having very strict appointment times and controlling the amount of people within the clinic

Others areas can not be managed so easily. Those undergoing treatments that puts them in a higher risk, those will health conditions that put them at a higher risk. Many staff were working on the covid wards and how would a hospital possible run clinics as they usually do with the high number of people going in and out everyday

Then there was the number of staff off having to self isolate

How could we take on patients from another mh unit when in the unit they were in had outbreaks when we were clear of them. This could have always changed as staff could catch COVID but you have to limited the risks. To have someone tested before would mean they would have to stay in complete isolation and somehow transport themselves in complete isolation to ensure they were not infected. This is how hospitals have to manage risk the aim was to limit the virus being passed on as much as possible

[quote elenacampana]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

They’re being directed by other bodies - what don’t you understand about that?[/quote]
What I don't understand is how someone with a new onset resting oxygen saturation of 90% and 83% on exertion is deemed ok to wait 8 plus months to be seen.

Well, for the world beyond the UK, basic blood means:

A) lipids/cholesterol
B) HbA1c
C) Vitamin D
D) Vitamin B12
E) Iron

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'And I think those who seek to dismiss or excuse this indefensible status quo are an impediment to any kind of reform to a seriously flawed institution.'

Ah I'm an impediment to reform then.

Again. Routine stuff was scaled down/halted to protect patients and staff. Now it's being restarted and the backlog is being addressed with extra screening, extra theatre lists and NHS contracts in private hospitals.

I do agree that GPs need to be back to normal service now but ime many are. Seems common sense to carry on with telephone and econsults where appropriate though.

Things aren’t picking back up everywhere. My dad is waiting for surgery. He finally saw the surgeon last week and he was told that the team are only being allowed to operate at 25% of what they did before so can’t even keep on top of the urgent cases (cancers etc) let alone the more “routine” stuff which still leaves patients potentially bed bound in agony.

@gypsywater

Do you understand that the world beyond the dysfunctional NHS regards the following blood work as basic? Not luxury? Sigh

lipids/cholesterol
B) HbA1c
C) Vitamin D
D) Vitamin B12
E) Iron
Bookmark

I work in adult safeguarding. It's appalling what is still happening to vulnerable adults. Elderly patients in urgent need of non Covid related care being refused a hospital bed and put in unsafe environments.

GPs refusing to do home visits for people who are bed bound at home leading to significant deterioration until they get moved to end of life care.

Complete shut down of face to face mental health services resulting in many vulnerable adults falling into crisis.

Fuck this government. Fuck the NHS. I don't understand why people are not rioting in the streets.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Take it up with the government - they have cut NHS funding, waiting lists are down to them.

I can see you are going to stay on your own trajectory here and will not use common sense or critical thinking ability so I’m leaving this here and won’t respond to you again.

Me. I was supposed to have my smear in March and I'm still waiting. They have a backlog.

Also I need a filling and my nhs dentist refuses to do it but they can if I go private

@PickACoolUserName
That's such a shame. Many MH services have been seeing patients face to face (if needed) throughout though. Our six acute wards have been fully operational and our CMHTs seeing any patient face to face who needs to be seen that way (with PPE). Now back to 100% face to face aside from patients who prefer video conferencing or telephone.

Take it up with the government

elancamp

Why are you berating someone who is being failed by the NHS to take it up with the government? Who is holding the NHS responsible for its myriad failures? Where is the media? Who is responsible for the consequences of decisions made by health authorities? Are you seriously suggesting that Boris Johnson is responsible for every decision? If so? What is the purpose and function of NHS bureaucracy? How is the upper echelons of NHS management absolved from the consequences of NHS policies?

Bovary are you some pro privatisation plant? You can be found on most nhs threads berating the service despite, I seem to remember you previously said you are not in the UK and don't use the nhs.

If I was required to isolate for 14 days to be seen, to have a stent replaced that is now beyond urgent etc, I would happily do it. This should have been changed urgently back in March but the appointment was cancelled by them.

I could be seen in a private hospital, it has been done previously.

Thing is no-one is listening, the other departments needed aren't responding. There is someone there to regularly check the messages on the answer machine but that's it. There is someone reading emails, but that's it.

Pals here are overwhelmed at the moment, 6 week wait for someone to reply to you, this was 2 weeks ago so could be more/less by now.

And if it's because they now lack money why aren't NHS talking about this publicly? Are we expected to sit around until the next financial year for treatment and tests?

BovaryX I agree with most of what you've said. I think the NHS was pretty dysfunctional before covid. Why on earth are GPs - private enterprises - the gatekeepers of services, it makes everything more complicated and longwinded? And I think they are responsible for monitoring chronic illnesses such as diabetes or thyroid problems when they have insufficient knowledge or training about such issues.

Unfortunately all the clapping and pan banging will have made any political party reluctant to reform it because of our apparent devotion to it.

So sorry for all of you seriously affected, the worst (thankfully) to have happened in our family was my mum having her thyroid blood test delayed for six months because apparently her GP surgery were only doing emergency blood tests . Apparently she should be on double the amount of thyroxine that she's been taking, no wonder she's felt so shit.

@BovaryX

As if I’m going to even read all of those questions, let alone answer them.

Berating is far from what I’m doing - choose more appropriate language. Although, from what another poster said, you’re very anti Public Health Service so it’s no wonder you’ve come on all guns blazing.

[quote elenacampana]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Take it up with the government - they have cut NHS funding, waiting lists are down to them.

I can see you are going to stay on your own trajectory here and will not use common sense or critical thinking ability so I’m leaving this here and won’t respond to you again.[/quote]
You read all of the posts on this thread and the conclusion that you draw is that I'm on my own trajectory and that I need to take it up with the government??

How about the consultants and managers working within the NHS take it up on behalf of the ill and vulnerable patients who aren't able to fight for themselves?

The Government are using this "mid/in between covid-19 waves" to introduce reforms to the NHS, outlined in 2019 in the following plan:

www.longtermplan.nhs.uk/online-version/overview-and-summary/

The NHS in terms of how you accessed services pre-covid has changed. A significant number of NHS staff were shielding & returned to work two weeks ago. The NHS is chronically understaffed but now that the shielded cohort have returned to work, the planned changes are being made and all services are slowly reopening adopting a new approach.

@jacks11 has helpfully explained the reason behind the reduced number of surgeries.

The goal is to not close services if we have a 2nd wave of covid-19. (that will be re-assessed at the time).

I'm saddened by some of the experiences shared on this thread. Please don't sit at home worrying. Contact your GP for answers or if you have contact details for your consultant make contact. If you cannot get a response then complain complain complain. There are so many places to complain and you are well within your rights to complain. And keep complaining until you get access to the treatment you need.

Write to your GP and/or Practice Manager
Write to your MP
Write to your CCG
Write to PALs
Write to your local councillor
Write to Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

If you need help to make your complaint contact the NHS Complaints Advocacy Service.

The details of how/who to complain to are here:

www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/about-the-nhs/how-to-complain-to-the-nhs/

@canigooutyet

If I was required to isolate for 14 days to be seen, to have a stent replaced that is now beyond urgent etc, I would happily do it. This should have been changed urgently back in March but the appointment was cancelled by them.

I could be seen in a private hospital, it has been done previously.

Thing is no-one is listening, the other departments needed aren't responding. There is someone there to regularly check the messages on the answer machine but that's it. There is someone reading emails, but that's it.

Pals here are overwhelmed at the moment, 6 week wait for someone to reply to you, this was 2 weeks ago so could be more/less by now.

And if it's because they now lack money why aren't NHS talking about this publicly? Are we expected to sit around until the next financial year for treatment and tests?

See, this is it isn't it? A six week wait to get help from PALS. My next appointment is due in September but I haven't even got the appointment made because somewhere the system has fallen over. I should be seen every three months. I was last seen in December. If PALS take six weeks to respond and then I have to wait for the appointment I'll be lucky if I'm seen in October (if the second wave isn't upon us by then and it all starts again)

Are you suggesting BovaryX that the NHS should have run services are normal regardless of the risk

Do you not think lack of testing, tracking and not going into lockdown sooner didn’t add to the pressure on the NHS

I cant take a word @BovaryX says seriously on this topic having just heard they dont even live in the UK / use the NHS

Now back to 100% face to face aside from patients who prefer video conferencing or telephone.

My psychiatrist appointments will be remaining as telephone appointments which makes them useless. You don't get a time, just a day. Dc1 is now at school and I have to take him/pick him up. I've missed the last two, one because I was picking dc1 up (and dh was in a work meeting with headphones and didn't hear the phone) and the one before because despite me telling him repeatedly that we dont get mobile reception at home due to the cliff behind the house and the massive stone walls, he keeps phoning it. Plus I'm not comfortable discussing anything in front of dc2 especially given my issues (trauma related) but I can't get anyone else to take her for the duration because I don't know when it's going to be.