To think private schooling should be abolished

[year5teacher]

Just to preface, I’m not criticising individual parents. You have to do what you consider best for your child - for example if the choice was a private school with excellent dyslexia support and a state school that was notoriously bad, for example, you must make the correct judgement for your child.

Just to get that out the way so the thread isn’t flooded with “well I sent DC to private school because...”. I’m not talking about individuals, I’m talking about the system as a whole.

AIBU to believe it’s morally wrong for us as a society to allow children of higher earners to access a generally better level of education, which in turn can affect their trajectories for the rest of their lives?

[quote IncrediblySadToo]@year5teacher

i know none of this is ever going to happen in real life, people are too focused on furthering themselves and not thinking about what benefits society as a whole

So, other than starting threads (which many will see as goady? Especially today) what are YOU doing to change things[/quote]
Just because you disagree with someone doesn’t make them goady.
I would consider myself to be pretty politically active, and have been for years, especially around the issue of education. I campaigned a lot in the last GE for labour (fat lot of good that did!) and I also do what I can to provide a good education for children in state schools. I’m hardly moving mountains, but I do try and practice what I preach.

YeahNahMum

Sorry other comment meant to say “Fundamentally didn’t agree with the private system”

Your OP WAS about stopping (wealthy) people having things - private education.

It’s a strange assumption that private education is “better”

It depends how you measure it. I went to a private school and I don’t think my teachers were better than those in the state sector. I recognise the privilege I had but don’t think that everything about private education is better, by a long shot.

I enjoyed school. But I wouldn’t consider private education for my son.

What other people do for their kids is none of my concern

@SerenDippitty

I would stop public schools being charities with all the tax breaks that involves.

Just to be clear by "public schools" here I don't mean state schools!

@MangoFeverDream

I don’t believe in ability grouping

This is very strange. Why wouldn’t you want children to work to their ability levels?

I can really only speak for primary school so I’m by no means an expert on this. I feel that ability grouping basically limits children, teachers all know that kids know if they’re in the top/bottom table even if you try to hide it. It’s part of a whole “fixed mindset” thing where if a child thinks they’re in the bottom set then they’re not going to achieve what some of the higher set will. I don’t do ability grouping in my class. Of course you still differentiate!!! It’s harder because especially in lower KS2 if you’re going round the tables, you can’t just pitch what you’re saying at a different level per table, but in my experience it’s beneficial. Other teachers may have positive experiences with ability grouping but I haven’t, as a child or a teacher.

But is private healthcare better?

A private room instead of a ward of four.
Where the doctors and nurses call you Madam or Sir.
The only possible advantage is being seen sooner than the NHS, and if the NHS had more funding and better provision this would not be the issue.

Why don't you just move to a communist country, if you dont agree with a capitalist society.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/13/england-a-level-downgrades-hit-pupils-from-disadvantaged-areas-hardest

Yet another example of the state-private split and how it plays out, once again reinforcing inequality and cementing people's places in the social hierarchy.

I get where you’re coming from, but ultimately I do think you’re being unreasonable. I believe education should be a parental choice, not dictated by the government.. Whether that’s private school, state school, faith school, or home education. I do think there’s a lot that needs to be done to improve educational standards at state schools in deprived areas, and I think the results debacle highlights that.

If private schools were abolished the rich would buy in tutors, they wouldn't go to a failing comp or even an average one.
Money can buy you anything, it's the way of the world and always has been.
You can be poor and invested in your child's education and them do well. It's a combination of the child's commitment and parental support that's the most important, not what school they attend.
You can reach your potential in any school with the right attitude to learning.

No. Why should it be. I didn't send mine to private school but moved to a better area with better schools. That's more unfair in a way because it's still about affordability. I don't agree with grammar schools. That's even worse. Better off parents paying for coaching to get thrir little dears through the exams otherwise it would be the sink school and that would never do.

I'm with you OP. Nobody should be able to buy privalege for their children. I would go further and allocate places at schools by local lottery. This would make it completely fair. Too many parents think that the fact that schools are woefully underfunded is nothing to do with them. My plan would ensure that the most vocal parents would be more engaged with schools and have an incentive to improve schools for everyone. This sharp elbowed 'I'm alright Jack' attitude really pisses me off. Nobody's child should be seen as more important than any one else's. And before anyone asks I sent my child to the nearest local Primary and Secondary school. The Primary was 'good', the Secondary was made into an Academy when he was in Y9 and provision was a bit patchy. I was a governor and worked with them to improve.

@Dozer

Your OP WAS about stopping (wealthy) people having things - private education.

I would say it’s more about making really good standards of education accessible to everyone. I do maintain that the best levels of education shouldn’t be monopolised by wealthy people. It’s not about making things shit for people, it’s about making things good for everyone.

It's a pointless idea, because people who don't want to use the state system and have resources will continue to use them to avoid it. Money now being spent on private school fees would instead be spent on using private tutors to homeschool, quite possibly pooling resources with other families who can afford it. Total waste of time.

You think the private schools are great and state schools are a bit rubbish so you want to ban the private schools? Level down. Nobody has nice things. OK.

How about we abolish the crappy state schools and expand the more good private schools. Level up.

Everyone seems to agree government lack of money is the blocker for improving state schools. For individuals, lack of money is typically the reason for not sending their children to private school.

If the money exists to increase funding per child enough why not increase the private provision by having government fund it while private runs it. Given you yourself start with the premise that private schools do it better already.

The thing is though the money does not exist anywhere. Banning private or state won't magic the funding into existence. Who owns the building and whose name is on the teachers' payslips isn't what makes the education good or bad.

@Devlesko

If private schools were abolished the rich would buy in tutors, they wouldn't go to a failing comp or even an average one. Money can buy you anything, it's the way of the world and always has been. You can be poor and invested in your child's education and them do well. It's a combination of the child's commitment and parental support that's the most important, not what school they attend. You can reach your potential in any school with the right attitude to learning.

I’m afraid I really disagree with the last part of your comment - yes, some children in state schools will achieve excellent grades and some will succeed against “the odds” in poor areas. But I think to say that it’s all down to mindset ignores the way that privilege massively does affect people’s lives.

Your OP is contradictory. If people didn’t feel the need to use them, they wouldn’t exist.

The issue of faith schools is a much more pressing problem.

Nope. State schools have to be improved, then private schools go out of business automatically. As it is, state schools are very similar to private schools - if you have money, you move close to a good one, and your child gets an education. If you don’t have money, you can’t afford to live close to a good state school, and won’t get a decent education.
Clean up and finance the state system properly, and you’ll get rid of inequalities. Ban private schools, and you just increase the Unavailability of good state schools for less well of pupils

Absolutely sick to death of threads like this. If higher earners who have worked hard to build a better life for their families and chose to spend their disposable income on school fees instead of fancy cars and multiple holidays, then why should anyone have the right to deny them that choice. And why should their children be penalised for choices their parents have made?
Life and society isn’t fair- the sooner you realise that OP the better.

We need to increase options for parents.

The choices available to us were:
a) stay put and have DC in all likelihood at a school with significant gang problems
b) private school - we did this but can only just afford it
c) have £1 million to be in the catchment of the good local state
d) rent in the catchment of the good local state and then move

Inequality is always going to exist. Ideological debate about whether it is 'fair' or not takes away the opportunity to find solutions which will bring about actual change.

In NZ there are 'state integrated' schools which for all intensive purposes appear to be 'private schools' but are instead funded with the same funding state schools get per student plus a small topup from parents.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, OP.

@endofthelinefinally

Back in the 60s, Grammar Schools were an absolute lifeline for poor and disadvantaged children. Unfortunately that has changed because state schools don't prepare children for 11+, so many of the kids who get in only do so because their parents can pay for tutoring.

This is a myth, grammar schools entrench existing inequalities. There are a few who squeak through but in small numbers.

You think the private schools are great and state schools are a bit rubbish so you want to ban the private schools? Level down. Nobody has nice things. OK.

If you read some of my previous comments you’ll see that I think that everyone should have the nice things, such as a high level of education which is not decided by household income.

@cocopops

Absolutely sick to death of threads like this. If higher earners who have worked hard to build a better life for their families and chose to spend their disposable income on school fees instead of fancy cars and multiple holidays, then why should anyone have the right to deny them that choice. And why should their children be penalised for choices their parents have made? Life and society isn’t fair- the sooner you realise that OP the better.

The sooner you realise that we should not settle for an unfair society, the better.