To think masks are just being treated as completely optional?!

[JuniperFather]

I went shopping today in Sainsburys and Asda, needed to get some items for DD that would have taken too long to arrive if online. For reference I live in the South East (M25/A3).

I wore a mask, as I have done since the rules have changed. Yes it was uncomfortable in the heat, but it was done to respect and protect others. If I have the privilege of being able to use a public space and shop, then it's hardly a privation to protect others as per the Government guidance.

Yet today, on my two visits, I reckon I saw maybe 30 or 40 people wandering around without masks. Probably more than that.

Quite a few were young men, late teens early 20s, completely oblivious. One was a lady who glared at anyone who even dared look at her. A few were local workmen. Another lady in her 50s, a few who were a bit younger.

I would go as far to say that maybe half of the shop were wearing masks, and half weren't.

My AIBU question is, do you think people are now just now viewing masks as completely optional when in such spaces, rather than an enforceable requirement as per the Government's steer?

YABU: No they're not being viewed as optional. All these people probably have hidden disabilities.

YANBU: You're right. People are just doing what they want.

I start this thread in the fear however that I will get a slew of responses from people saying

• I suffered trauma which means I can't cover my face
• I have breathing difficulties

etc..

This post is not for you - the Government make it clear in the 7 August face coverings briefing that you are exempt.

However my question is, was everyone I came across REALLY in this category? Is Britain a country with thousands of people with breathing difficulties and unresolved traumas, when continental Europe, Asia etc have much higher rates of mask compliance?

Or as per my question, my real suspicion is that the dozens of people I saw, just can't be arsed with a mask and won't ever be told what to do. They know those two shops won't challenge them, and the likelihood of the police being called or getting fined is low. So they just do what they want.

AIBU to think it's all just being treated as completely optional, and those of us bearing discomfort and wearing masks to protect others are just sheep?

@Daftodil

However my question is, was everyone I came across REALLY in this category? Is Britain a country with thousands of people with breathing difficulties and unresolved traumas, when continental Europe, Asia etc have much higher rates of mask compliance?

100% agree. The trouble is, all you have to do to be exempt is say you're exempt. I imagine that if exemption was based on a doctor's note there would be far fewer exemptions. Yes, there are genuine reasons for not being able to wear a mask, but I think there are also a high number of people who, for whatever reason, just don't want to.

Indeed

The worst part is, they also don't have the integrity to just state confidently that they don't want to wear one, that it isn't due to some medical exemption in their case.

@wanderings

Yippee, another mask thread! (Pulls up chair)

It's obvious the government doesn't care about this issue very much, unlike the citizens of Mumsnetland, given how many vitriolic threads there about masks. Notice that they did not tell us why they suddenly made masks compulsory in shops, having previously dismissed masks as no good. The government knew it would give them favourable headlines, it would make them appear to be doing something, at no cost to themselves, and the fact that they didn't bother to implement a costly system of exemptions, but instead went for a haphazard and unenforceable system says it all about how much they really value the masks. Perhaps some members of the public have sensed this.

The public have proved that they're willing to act as enforcers for the government (Easter eggs, toilet roll, the fictional 1-hour rule for exercise, etc.); the government knew this, so they threw in the masks, like throwing a bone to the public for the two sides to fight over, and knew that an unenforceable system would do just fine. They threw in the token line that the police would enforce it (it seems even the police weren't consulted about this), but they don't need the police: there is a whole masked Mafia, willing to do the job unpaid.

Well I would imagine that considering it's worldwide and certainly Europe wide that they aren't just making up their own guidance and science. It's being followed everywhere.

Unless you think it's actually the only time governments across the world have agreed in anything and it's a global plan to muzzle gag us all

Get over it and myob
You've no idea why

High compliance here and staff generally ask upon entrance at stores. Refused entry to McDonalds to use the Eat Out to Help Out scheme (didn't realise I actually needed one for in there given you take it off for eating) because I didn't have a spare in the car.

So YABU. Wonder how many hundreds you saw and glazed over wearing a mask vs the 30-40 you were probably consciously looking for (confirmation bias).

people lower down the socio economic scale have been told they are disposable for years.
disabled people died after having benefits cut......this is in the thousands. 120"000 actually.

Grenfell
Windrush.

Then all of a sudden............along comes Covid19 and suddenly lives matter. Because EVERYONE is affected not just the poor or disabled people or BAME or single parents on UC (do we really think this face mask edict would have come in if it was just poorer groups affected) The Yorkshire Job Centre was on Channel 4 on Monday night. People on UC still being othered and patronised. Great timing Channel 4

So you will forgive me if i sometimes do start to wonder if there is a whiff of poorer people being told to wear old socks on their faces to protect their "betters"

All in this together my arse!!!

I think what annoys me most is the people who actually undermine those with true disability and trauma by using the "exempt" line to do as they please.

My ds is exempt as he's autistic. He tried but really couldn't handle it. He hates not wearing one because he feels self conscious.

Then there's those who say they are exempt but wear one because they don't want people staring.

Well you don't need to be exempt if you can wear one!

I think because it's a very obvious thing (you can tell if someone has a mask or not!) it's the one time it would have been acceptable to have to get proper medical exemption - email or card or something - to prove exemption.

Did you want to snitch on them?

@HeIenaDove

people lower down the socio economic scale have been told they are disposable for years. disabled people died after having benefits cut......this is in the thousands. 120"000 actually. Grenfell Windrush.

Then all of a sudden............along comes Covid19 and suddenly lives matter. Because EVERYONE is affected not just the poor or disabled people or BAME or single parents on UC (do we really think this face mask edict would have come in if it was just poorer groups affected) The Yorkshire Job Centre was on Channel 4 on Monday night. People on UC still being othered and patronised. Great timing Channel 4

So you will forgive me if i sometimes do start to wonder if there is a whiff of poorer people being told to wear old socks on their faces to protect their "betters"

All in this together my arse!!!

Huh?!!

There's some massive ideological leaps there....I'm sorry that you feel the way you do and I admire your socio-economic stance on things like Windrush and Grenfell, both causes close to my heart and my family (some of whom came from the Caribbean and settled in W London).

But hang on a minute...so people are being asked to wear masks just to protect the elite? I think that's a massive leap.

A pandemic is inherently a great leveller. It is universal in nature, it doesn't discriminate. Half of the Cabinet could go to ground for months and years on the wealth they have, but they are also elected to try and help people/protect them.

Whether they're doing a good job is of course up for discussion (I don;t think they're doing that well) but this kind of strange socio-conspiracy rant just isn't what i think is the truth.

@anon5000

Did you want to snitch on them?

In Wales we don't have to wear them in shops (do on public transport and taxis - and in hairdressers and barbers - not sure who else) - maybe 15-20% wear them anyway

I've seen people be prevented getting on public transport without them

@itsgettingweird I don't think the global plan you refer to is that far-fetched: whoever shouts the loudest can go viral in minutes nowadays. As for the guidance being worldwide, that's probably exactly why Boris felt he had to follow it: because it's worldwide. Boris didn't want to be left out. He wanted to deny the virus was a threat at all, then he wanted to go with the herd immunity plan, then he caved to pressure and felt he had to do what the rest of the world was doing.

I think because it's a very obvious thing (you can tell if someone has a mask or not!) it's the one time it would have been acceptable to have to get proper medical exemption - email or card or something - to prove exemption.

I think that falls down for trauma. My flatmate found me in the morning and made me see a doctor. They sent a letter to my GP detailing the bruises and lacerations to my face, throat, arms, vagina and thighs. Years later when I had a breakdown, flashbacks etc, my GP easily pierced the pieces together and I wound up being diagnosed with Ptsd. I'm still under a psychiatrist, have had loads of therapy etc but not everyone seeks support (or as in my case has it forced upon them). I suspect there might be even be a socio-economic factor, certainly from support groups I'm in, single mums, women on benefits and those with lower levels of education seem less likely to seek professional help especially if they have young children because they are afraid that they'll be deemed unfit parents/have social services called on them.

"A pandemic is inherently a great leveller"

We are all in the same boat but some of us are in a cruise liner. Some of us are in a pedalo.

I suggested on one of the many mask threads that families on a low income should get masks delivered free.

"You think people should get them for free"???!!!

was the reaction i got from one of the most gung ho about it on here.

I stand by my post

I went to the supermarket today and everyone was in a mask, despite the heat. Round here people are still following the rules.

Some people don't believe they are necessary, some don't want it to be the norm (me), some can't wear them for medical reasons.
I wear one when I have to by law, if it isn't the law I'm not bothering.
Guidelines smidelines
I wear in a shop because I have to, or so i believe.
Whipped straight off at the doorway.

@itsgettingweird

I think what annoys me most is the people who actually undermine those with true disability and trauma by using the "exempt" line to do as they please.

My ds is exempt as he's autistic. He tried but really couldn't handle it. He hates not wearing one because he feels self conscious.

Then there's those who say they are exempt but wear one because they don't want people staring.

Well you don't need to be exempt if you can wear one!

I think because it's a very obvious thing (you can tell if someone has a mask or not!) it's the one time it would have been acceptable to have to get proper medical exemption - email or card or something - to prove exemption.

Absolutely. The don't want to people undermine people who are exempt because they can't wear a mask.

oh and i wear one by the way.

Masks are a real drag
But its all about the price tag
Now you need to do your duty.
And shop for clothes and beauty.
Dont forget about shoes.
And stuff you possibly wont use.
And you can go to the pub
Eat lots of lovely grub.
With not a mask in sight.
You can party all night.
Drinkers getting a free pass
So they can drink and fall on their arse.
Had enough of this crap
Sick of being in this trap
Up to me if i dont shop
It doesnt mean you can have a pop.
Now i play the waiting game.
But you wont make me feel shame.
I DO wear a mask
But being happy "bout it. Too big an ask.

The Pandemic is certainly not the great leveller - those in poverty massively disproportionately hit by both Covid and Lockdown. They will be massively and unequally hit by the economic shit show that is to come.

Evidence for masks very weak - google Carl Heneghan and the centre for evidence based medicine (same guy who bought to light the PHE death statistics scandal.)

Sweden - practised social distancing and hygiene but no lockdown and masks - lots of scientific analysis at present indicating that they may be at herd immunity. Their total deaths not quite 6000 - inflated by the issue of not protecting care homes (same as us) but practically down to zero now. Caveat: small population of just over 10 million.

Peru - masks since the early days and one of the strictest lockdowns in the world, they haven't done so well.

• I wear one when I have to by law, if it isn't the law I'm not bothering. Guidelines smidelines *

Well the Police have said they won't be enforcing it (well here they have at least), so fill your boots.

@Devlesko

Some people don't believe they are necessary, some don't want it to be the norm (me), some can't wear them for medical reasons. I wear one when I have to by law, if it isn't the law I'm not bothering. Guidelines smidelines I wear in a shop because I have to, or so i believe. Whipped straight off at the doorway.

I still don't get all this rebel-in-training stuff. No one wants it to be "the norm...! It's a pandemic.

@PhilCornwall1

* I wear one when I have to by law, if it isn't the law I'm not bothering. Guidelines smidelines *

Well the Police have said they won't be enforcing it (well here they have at least), so fill your boots.

Fill your boots?!

I get the expression but it seems so strange in regard to this. People celebrating an opportunity to walk around and potentially put other folk in danger is an occasion to celebrate.

Also I don't tend to live my life by what's enforceable according to the police/the law, or consider anything I can get away with as a "win".

I don't know what you mean about rebel in training.
I wear mine in a shop, and haven't used public transport since the masks became compulsory.
Think they are here for good now though.

• Fill your boots?!

I get the expression but it seems so strange in regard to this. People celebrating an opportunity to walk around and potentially put other folk in danger is an occasion to celebrate.

Also I don't tend to live my life by what's enforceable according to the police/the law, or consider anything I can get away with as a "win".*

I was being sarcastic!

I don't live my life that way either. That's why I'm wearing a bloody lanyard around my neck when I go into shops saying I can't wear one, to hopefully avoid the mask police having a go. Not that it works.

It's not comfortable, but a whole lot less pain than if I wore one.

I had mine on and then took it off with it hanging on my ear considering there was very few people around and I could easily keep 3+ meter distance from everyone. Humid heat makes me nauseous and lightheaded without a mask (I’ve been fainting from it since I was 7), having it on made it even worse. Rather take it off for a few minutes than faint in a store with a pram and a 2.5 yo who wouldn’t know why mommy was in the floor.

Went to Central London on Wed & Sun and I saw very few people without a face covering on public transport or walking around, however only in certain places I didn’t really see them and that was in places where there were cluster of restaurants.

Saying that, I’m not going to go out of my way to confront someone for not wearing a face covering because it is none of my business on why. My concern is with protecting myself and my family. What others do is up to them. I’d rather people social distance and use hand sanitizer than assume the mask (often worn improperly from what I’ve seen) is the be all protection that they only have to do.