To think masks are just being treated as completely optional?!

[JuniperFather]

I went shopping today in Sainsburys and Asda, needed to get some items for DD that would have taken too long to arrive if online. For reference I live in the South East (M25/A3).

I wore a mask, as I have done since the rules have changed. Yes it was uncomfortable in the heat, but it was done to respect and protect others. If I have the privilege of being able to use a public space and shop, then it's hardly a privation to protect others as per the Government guidance.

Yet today, on my two visits, I reckon I saw maybe 30 or 40 people wandering around without masks. Probably more than that.

Quite a few were young men, late teens early 20s, completely oblivious. One was a lady who glared at anyone who even dared look at her. A few were local workmen. Another lady in her 50s, a few who were a bit younger.

I would go as far to say that maybe half of the shop were wearing masks, and half weren't.

My AIBU question is, do you think people are now just now viewing masks as completely optional when in such spaces, rather than an enforceable requirement as per the Government's steer?

YABU: No they're not being viewed as optional. All these people probably have hidden disabilities.

YANBU: You're right. People are just doing what they want.

I start this thread in the fear however that I will get a slew of responses from people saying

• I suffered trauma which means I can't cover my face
• I have breathing difficulties

etc..

This post is not for you - the Government make it clear in the 7 August face coverings briefing that you are exempt.

However my question is, was everyone I came across REALLY in this category? Is Britain a country with thousands of people with breathing difficulties and unresolved traumas, when continental Europe, Asia etc have much higher rates of mask compliance?

Or as per my question, my real suspicion is that the dozens of people I saw, just can't be arsed with a mask and won't ever be told what to do. They know those two shops won't challenge them, and the likelihood of the police being called or getting fined is low. So they just do what they want.

AIBU to think it's all just being treated as completely optional, and those of us bearing discomfort and wearing masks to protect others are just sheep?

Headline in papers today£3200 fine for no mask wearing so I think we are in this until at least next spring.

@whenwillthemadnessend

Headline in papers today£3200 fine for no mask wearing so I think we are in this until at least next spring.

The fines are pointless given that no one is enforcing them.

SengaStrawberry

Staff in shops can't always keep their distance from customers. I've had many times where I've been much closer than two metres to a customer because I've had to help them.

Not like you to come onto a thread and make it all about you @Hearhoovesthinkzebras

@SengaStrawberry

Not like you to come onto a thread and make it all about you *@Hearhoovesthinkzebras*

I'm not making it all about me. I'm giving an example of why shop staff aren't able to stay distant to customers at all times. I keep seeing the placatory advice to "keep your distance" as an answer to any concerns - in lots of jobs "keeping your distance" isn't an option. It's not just about me, it's about any employees who work in situations where it's not possible to stay two metres away from people not wearing masks.

Maybe engage with the points raised rather than making personal attacks?

@whenwillthemadnessend

Headline in papers today£3200 fine for no mask wearing so I think we are in this until at least next spring.

It's a sliding scale to a maximum of £3,200, not an immediate of that amount.

It's all bollocks anyway as the Police aren't enforcing it.

"Staff in shops can't always keep their distance from customers."

Some staff in shops don't always keep their distance even when they can. Click and collect and home delivery trying to hand me stuff and I'm having to back away because they won't stay 2m away. As masks have come distancing seems to have disappeared.

@Underhisi

"Staff in shops can't always keep their distance from customers."

Some staff in shops don't always keep their distance even when they can. Click and collect and home delivery trying to hand me stuff and I'm having to back away because they won't stay 2m away. As masks have come distancing seems to have disappeared.

And I don't agree with that happening but two wrongs don't make a right.

Staff should keep their distance but at times it's impossible when a customer needs assistance. If they aren't wearing a mask there's no protection for staff at that point.

Great rational post @SengaStrawberry

Some people need to get a grip and learn how to accurately appraise risk.

This would apply as the response to 90% of threads on mumsnet at the moment. So true.

Some people need to get a grip and learn to accurately appraise risk

Yes and it's pretty hard to do that with a novel virus. A few months ago coronavirus 19 was thought of as predominantly being a respiratory virus - now we know that's not true. One study shows that it causes heart inflammation in 80% of people - is that correct? Dont know? Is the damage reversible- not known.

Are the 1 in 20 people who suffer a long tail form of the disease going to recover? Don't know. What makes you more susceptible to this form of the disease? Not known.

Same for damage to kidneys, or pancreas or brain. We know it happens bit not how widely or what the long term prognosis is. So how do we realistically appraise the risks?

Seems to me that the people banging on about realistically assessing risk are those who are still wedded to the idea of corona being "a little flu" even though we have known for quite some time that that is bollocks.

The only place I’ve seen a large number of people without masks is Asda, the lady in front of me was in her Pyjamas and dressing gown so I’m not sure she really cares what she is expected to wear in public.

£3200 fine? The usual token window dressing. This was announced to "balance" the easing of restrictions on bowling alleys etc. I expect a token handful of fines might be issued to make an example of somebody, and give the government and their disciples the headlines they want.

@Shopaholic100

The only place I’ve seen a large number of people without masks is Asda, the lady in front of me was in her Pyjamas and dressing gown so I’m not sure she really cares what she is expected to wear in public.

classic...why oh why do people do this.

@wanderings

£3200 fine? The usual token window dressing. This was announced to "balance" the easing of restrictions on bowling alleys etc. I expect a token handful of fines might be issued to make an example of somebody, and give the government and their disciples the headlines they want.

I'm not a government disciple. I would just love to see some of these clowns who think they're "rebels" for not wearing masks, heavily fined.

A couple were on a train journey of some 100 miles. Not a mask to be seen. We arrived at the second to last station before they got off and a couple of police officers happened to be stood on the platform. They didn't have exemptions then, else they would have kept them off.

I'm seeing loads of cases where people hastily put masks on if they think someone's checking. You either have an exemption or you don't, hastily putting one on as soon as you spot a police officer is taking the piss.

And no, I haven't gone around challenging people who don't have one. I have no right to know anyone else's medical history. However, where people are donning them upon their chin then I do ask them to wear them properly (only if I'm at work, obviously, I don't go around challenging random passers-by in the street).

Some of the people may be putting the masks on because they are worried about not being believed by the police and becoming distressed in that situation and so are putting up with the mask for very short periods to avoid it. During lockdown we had a letter from a professional saying that we were allowed to travel out of our local area for exercise but we were still worried about being stopped and the person stopping us not understanding.

@DdraigGoch

A couple were on a train journey of some 100 miles. Not a mask to be seen. We arrived at the second to last station before they got off and a couple of police officers happened to be stood on the platform. They didn't have exemptions then, else they would have kept them off.

I'm seeing loads of cases where people hastily put masks on if they think someone's checking. You either have an exemption or you don't, hastily putting one on as soon as you spot a police officer is taking the piss.

And no, I haven't gone around challenging people who don't have one. I have no right to know anyone else's medical history. However, where people are donning them upon their chin then I do ask them to wear them properly (only if I'm at work, obviously, I don't go around challenging random passers-by in the street).

this is spot on - there's so much of a teenage mentality in all of this. Just wear the bloody thing or don't.

@Pickachew , Autism is absolutely a valid reason not to wear one. Also no, I have chronic illness so I have out twice since Lockdown and wouldn't feel the need to judge or point the finger at any individual- it's the general trend of a high percentage of people not wearing them; and therefore risking other people's health that concerns me.

** have been out twice

@Underhisi

Some of the people may be putting the masks on because they are worried about not being believed by the police and becoming distressed in that situation and so are putting up with the mask for very short periods to avoid it. During lockdown we had a letter from a professional saying that we were allowed to travel out of our local area for exercise but we were still worried about being stopped and the person stopping us not understanding.

You're determined to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, aren't you? Why can't you just accept that not everyone who isn't wearing a mask has a valid reason for not doing so? Given the proportion of non-mask wearers who are males in their teens/twenties, if they all had a valid reason then we must have a hitherto unreported public health crisis on our hands affecting an entire generation. For what it's worth, the instructions to BTP officers are that if someone mentions medical issues, they can question no further.

"You're determined to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, aren't you? Why can't you just accept that not everyone who isn't wearing a mask has a valid reason for not doing so?"

No I am giving you a reason for some people doing it. A reason based on my own lived experience. I did not say that is why they are all doing it. At no point have I said that everyone without a mask has a valid reason.

Why can't you see that some people without a mask have a valid reason for not wearing one?

Why can't you see that some people without a mask have a valid reason for not wearing one?

Very few out and about want to see this, quite a few are loving the fact that they can either have a go at you, or give you looks that if could kill, would see you six foot under.

They are so imaginative with their comments, let's see what I've had:

• selfish cunt
• covid denier
• fucking super spreader

And quite a few more.

What do these people achieve? Nothing apart from making themselves look like idiots. But of course they won't see it that way, they are upstanding members of the community "doing their bit" for the country.

@PhilCornwall1

Why can't you see that some people without a mask have a valid reason for not wearing one?

Very few out and about want to see this, quite a few are loving the fact that they can either have a go at you, or give you looks that if could kill, would see you six foot under.

They are so imaginative with their comments, let's see what I've had:

• selfish cunt
• covid denier
• fucking super spreader

And quite a few more.

What do these people achieve? Nothing apart from making themselves look like idiots. But of course they won't see it that way, they are upstanding members of the community "doing their bit" for the country.

When I said I was exempt in reply to being questioned, I got 'You don't look unhealthy'. He got back 'Just proves you can't judge by appearances - you don't look rude and ignorant'. I'm pleased to say that in my own experience, and with what other people have said, this kind of crap is very rarely happening in this area.

Enforcement or compliance with any restrictions immediately became less likely when Robert Jenrick and then Dominic Cummings were not sacked for their behaviour.

If police and perhaps the army had been used from when face covering was made compulsory in certain places, there might have been a chance.

One of the reasons why I support pub closures as one way of reducing the virus is that it is simple to enforce.

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/clapham-junction-face-masks-row-man-knocked-out-a4528986.html

Shocking moment man knocked out at Clapham Junction station after row breaks out over face masks