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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think about kicking out (good) tenants?

394 replies

pctmmn · 11/08/2020 13:36

I've had them for over three years and never missed a payment. But in April they said they were struggling so offered a 1/5th rent discount for three months. When this ended they asked for another three months. It doesn't affect my bottom line has I've taken out a 6 month mortgage holiday and the payments won't increase when they start again as it's added to the term.

I've been able to build up a bit of cash, but one works at a hotel and the other manages a resterant.

Would I be unreasonable to ask them to confirm the full rent needs to be paid for September else I'll give them notice? I really want someone in there paying the full rent and it feels like I'm subbing them right now.

OP posts:
Hollyhocksarenotmessy · 11/08/2020 22:20

I an a tenant moving shortly. I've been a great tenant. I always pay rent on time, I look after the property as though it were my own, I love where I live, I get on with my neighbours. Landlord is getting arsey, so I'm off.
Who knows what the new tenant will be like?

PatriciaPerch · 11/08/2020 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PatriciaPerch · 11/08/2020 22:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 11/08/2020 23:02

OP I don’t think you’re being unreasonable to expect the rent to be paid at some point as essentially you are being kind and subsidising their housing at present and you’re not obliged to do this ad infinitum or indeed at all.

You are subbing them, that’s why you feel like that. They’re paying less than the property they’re living in is worth. Are they paying back the discount you’ve given them?

I am worried about a downward pressure on rents, so wouldn't it be a good idea to kick out the current ones and get some white collar workers with secure jobs on a years contract?

Some peoples attitudes to renters is so messed up. As a PP said (commenting on the last quote above), some LLs don't actually seem to see their tenants as people: they're just irritating non-entities who happen to be paying you two or three times the monthly cost of your mortgage each month, mainly because you were in a position to get a deposit together to buy a house and they haven't yet been able to.

The PP was right: it is a business, but it's not the same as something like retail or providing a leisure service. People happily pay you far more for a single chocolate bar than you paid for it because they don't want to buy 1,000 of them. They will happily hand over £4 for a coffee from your shop/stall because they aren't at home to make one or can't be bothered to anyway. If they prefer not to do either of these, people can easily choose to forego them.

Housing is much more complicated. Everybody needs one home and the vast majority of renters only do so because they don't get the financial break to be able to start buying their own house and paying a fraction of the monthly rent towards a mortgage.

I'm not against people becoming LLs at all (I was an accidental one myself some years ago - incidentally, my excellent tenants' circumstances worsened through no fault of their own and I dropped the rent by a big percentage). I just think that many feel fully entitiled to have it all their way at the expense of much poorer people than them paying a premium.

As a LL, your mortgage has nothing whatsoever to do with your tenants. Of course, the balance of finances has to work for you longer term, otherwise you will have to reconsider your business and maybe eventually sell up if the figures no longer add up; but you have no automatic entitlement to have your monthly mortgage payment covered in full by your tenant's rent, let alone two or three times over. As has been said, their rent is helping you to buy a property. In theory, you could have the same tenants paying you for 20-25 years and pretty much buying you a free house whilst they have nothing to show for it all in the end.

Why is it such anathema to even consider that, should the tenants' monthly rent leave a temporary shortfall in your monthly mortgage payment for the property, which you then have to make up from your own funds, you are still in a very fortunate position in your longer term goal of owning a house outright at relatively minimal cost to yourself?

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 11/08/2020 23:06

the OP hasn't come back has she?

Nope. Probably too busy on the phone to Rentokil to see if they can help with getting rid of now-unwanted humans.

AvocadosBeforeMortgages · 11/08/2020 23:15

So you'd like to compound these people's misfortune and leave them homeless when they have

  • always paid you in full
  • worked hard, and just so happened to work in a sector hit hard by the pandemic
  • have kept paying as much rent as possible - while you have taken out a mortgage holiday, they have not had access to equivalent support, and by your own admission you've been profiting from this state of affairs

If you decide to evict, I hope you get tenants who never pay the rent, trash the place, and you have to go to court to get them evicted and then pay £££ to fix the property back up again.

You don't deserve your tenants.

DeRigueurMortis · 11/08/2020 23:35

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

the OP hasn't come back has she?

Nope. Probably too busy on the phone to Rentokil to see if they can help with getting rid of now-unwanted humans.

I think this wins the thread - especially love the "rent"okill pun Grin

Boilingbunny · 11/08/2020 23:51

You sound ridiculously grabby and I’m very glad you’re not my landlord.

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 12/08/2020 00:02

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll. I know a couple of LL’s and I don’t think they’re getting rents two to three times the cost of their mortgages. Mind you, we have property taxes here in the US that most people pay monthly alongside their mortgage so that adds to the bill.

Maybe if you’ve owned a house for 20 years and the mortgage is almost paid off, but I know my neighbors who are LL’s aren’t raking it in because they’ve told me! Most of what they make goes back into maintenance for the two properties they own. Mind you, they’d qualify as good LL’s because they maintain the properties well.

pctmmn · 12/08/2020 07:49

Good grief I'm not making them homeless! My property is a lovely detached bungalow. They could easily rent a 1 bed flat for half the price. And that's what they should do to cut their cloth to their budget.

How do you know they worked hard? Hmm And of course they haven't been paying their full rent for the last 6 months, did you read the thread?!

It barely makes a profit after the landlord tax that has now come in. But that's fine, I'm trying to pay off the mortgage as quick as possible to provide me during retirement as my job will be ever more difficult to do in my 50s.

Why are so many assuming a new tenant will be trouble? I always insist on 3 years of a landlord reference and employment references and I haven't had a problem.

I like them, but I've subbed their housing for 6 months now and I don't want them getting all entitled and thinking it will continue forever. If the economy does go down that's why I'd want to get some white collar workers that will be unaffected and sign them up on 12 months asap.

OP posts:
GlummyMcGlummerson · 12/08/2020 07:59

YABVVVVU

I'm a landlord, I got a mortgage break and passed it on to my tenant. Good tenants - ones who pay on time in full, don't mess your house up, don't call when a lightbulb pops expecting you to change it etc - are really hard to come by. He's a great tenant and i wasn't out of pocket so didn't mind. He got furloughed and I wanted to keep him in my property it's an investment really when I know I'll be keeping a good tenant. I don't expect him to make it back up either.

20% off when you have a 100% mortgage break is REALLY stingy. I think it's clear you don't realise just how bad a tenant can be. They sound great, you'll regret booting them out.

They could easily rent a 1 bed flat for half the price. And that's what they should do to cut their cloth to their budget

Hmm

People like you give LL's a bad name. They should downsize because their current LL is ripping them off? Pfff

GlummyMcGlummerson · 12/08/2020 08:01

I also don't think you realise how hard it is to actually kick tenants out and I do hope they exercise every last right if they do. They can literally stay in your home for about six months, not pay rent, and there's nothing you can do except go to court and pay £££ to have them eventually evicted. Starting the process will mean you run this risk. But if that 20% (well actually 100% seeing as you have a mortgage break) is so important to you then I guess it's your risk to take

pctmmn · 12/08/2020 08:10

They should downsize because their current LL is ripping them off?

What's wrong with people spending less if they have less money coming in? That's just obvious!! I don't for one second beleive you're a landlord

If my letting agent ever bothered to contact me over them complaining about a light bulb I'd get someone new to manage it

It's really not that difficult to issue a section 21 and seeing as they need my reference (which I will happily give) I doubt they wouldn't vacate when legally required to do so.

OP posts:
Lochroy · 12/08/2020 08:15

@GlummyMcGlummerson

YABVVVVU

I'm a landlord, I got a mortgage break and passed it on to my tenant. Good tenants - ones who pay on time in full, don't mess your house up, don't call when a lightbulb pops expecting you to change it etc - are really hard to come by. He's a great tenant and i wasn't out of pocket so didn't mind. He got furloughed and I wanted to keep him in my property it's an investment really when I know I'll be keeping a good tenant. I don't expect him to make it back up either.

20% off when you have a 100% mortgage break is REALLY stingy. I think it's clear you don't realise just how bad a tenant can be. They sound great, you'll regret booting them out.

They could easily rent a 1 bed flat for half the price. And that's what they should do to cut their cloth to their budget

Hmm

People like you give LL's a bad name. They should downsize because their current LL is ripping them off? Pfff

But it's not a 100% mortgage break is it. The OP will be paying for it in the long run. The mortgage holiday, better described a a pause, has simply enabled a short term decrease.

They should downsize because they are being ripped off. They should downsize because a change in circumstances means they can no longer afford it. Or they need to make other budget choices.

I completely understand these are homes and lives, but equally I just can't understand why LL get a hard time by default. These tenants signed up to an agreement. The world changed. LL is taking the hit of the cost of a rent reduction by taking the mortgage holiday, which they didn't have to do. Why is it unreasonable of the LL to now go back to the original agreement. Or at least put a date on doing so?

C8H10N4O2 · 12/08/2020 08:17

Good grief I'm not making them homeless! My property is a lovely detached bungalow. They could easily rent a 1 bed flat for half the price. And that's what they should do to cut their cloth to their budget

How do you know they worked hard? hmm And of course they haven't been paying their full rent for the last 6 months, did you read the thread?!

You are a jewel of humanity.

You are making them homeless. You are kicking them out knowing they are currently in no position to get a decent rental anywhere else due to their job situation.

You pocketed the mortgage holiday for yourself without passing it on to renters suffering hard in the economic crisis. You profiteered out of a benefit the chancellor intended to secure housing, at the expense of tenants who have been trouble free and rock solid reliable for three years.

You don't think they work hard - two people working in hospitality management? Don't make me laugh. You want to replace them with "naice" white collar workers.

Well good luck with that. All my FTSE100 clients are making white collar workers redundant at the moment and I'd point out they are unlikely to be trouble free. They know their rights in general and are less likely to stay in your "lovely detached" bungelow.

Oh for European rental models.

maybemu · 12/08/2020 08:22

They have only just been able to return to work and they might loose their jobs soon. I'd try and chat to them. I don't think a 1/5th reduction is that much. My mum is a landlord and people have asked for completely rent free from her. I wouldn't chuck out good tenants for a small reduction. Speak to them and see what can be arranged.

Bluntness100 · 12/08/2020 08:23

Op this is always going to be contentious on here. Some folks think that landlords are scum of the earth and renters are doing them a favour by paying their mortgage off. They can’t see it as paying to live some place.

I think that you’ve been generous for six months, tell them full rent from sept and see what they say, then make your decision.

GlummyMcGlummerson · 12/08/2020 08:28

But it's not a 100% mortgage break is it. The OP will be paying for it in the long run

Well no her tenants will be paying for it, whoever they are.

All landlord guidance I've received throughout the pandemic has been very clear to pass on discounts, breaks etc.
We are now officially in a recession. We have to help people out where we possibly can now. The OP could, but didn't and now wants to punish her very good tenants for it.

Pobblebonk · 12/08/2020 08:30

You pocketed the mortgage holiday for yourself without passing it on to renters suffering hard in the economic crisis. You profiteered out of a benefit the chancellor intended to secure housing

OP hasn't pocketed anything or profiteered. People seem to imagine that the mortgage holiday meant that the relevant sum would simply be knocked off what is owed to the building society, whereas - as pointed out several times above - not only is that completely untrue, but OP will end up having to pay extra interest.

GlummyMcGlummerson · 12/08/2020 08:31

I don't for one second beleive you're a landlord

Why, because I'm not a tight arse? Feel free to do a AS with the word 'landlord' or 'tenant' I've posted plenty about my situation as a landlord

What's wrong with people spending less if they have less money coming in?

Because they are on furlough, ergo they'll be back to their normal income before long. "Cutting your cloth accordingly" isn't changing your entire circumstances and uprooting your life based on your financial situation today that will improve. If they were struggling long term I'd agree with you but they're not

GlummyMcGlummerson · 12/08/2020 08:33

It's really not that difficult to issue a section 21 and seeing as they need my reference (which I will happily give) I doubt they wouldn't vacate when legally required to do so

No it's not hard to issue a section 21 but they aren't "legally required to vacate" until a HCEO goes round and breaks in. The section 21 date eviction is the date you're asking them to leave. They can easily stay for months after that and there's nothing you can do about it except apply to the court for an eviction

pctmmn · 12/08/2020 08:34

@C8H10N4O2

Good grief I'm not making them homeless! My property is a lovely detached bungalow. They could easily rent a 1 bed flat for half the price. And that's what they should do to cut their cloth to their budget

How do you know they worked hard? hmm And of course they haven't been paying their full rent for the last 6 months, did you read the thread?!

You are a jewel of humanity.

You are making them homeless. You are kicking them out knowing they are currently in no position to get a decent rental anywhere else due to their job situation.

You pocketed the mortgage holiday for yourself without passing it on to renters suffering hard in the economic crisis. You profiteered out of a benefit the chancellor intended to secure housing, at the expense of tenants who have been trouble free and rock solid reliable for three years.

You don't think they work hard - two people working in hospitality management? Don't make me laugh. You want to replace them with "naice" white collar workers.

Well good luck with that. All my FTSE100 clients are making white collar workers redundant at the moment and I'd point out they are unlikely to be trouble free. They know their rights in general and are less likely to stay in your "lovely detached" bungelow.

Oh for European rental models.

Talk about the politics of envy!

No I'm not making them homeless, they've been able to afford 80% rent and after 6 months of subbing them I do now require them to pay what they chose to sign up for. Otherwise it's better they find somewhere cheaper for both of us.

Don't be stupid, I haven't pocketed the mortgage holiday. I've used it to boost my reserve funds to prepare for future problems. Jesus Christ it's just sensible management!

And no you can't just assume someone works hard because of the industry they worked it! Some do, some don't.

Sure you have FTSE 100 clients 🤣

OP posts:
GlummyMcGlummerson · 12/08/2020 08:34

You pocketed the mortgage holiday for yourself without passing it on to renters suffering hard in the economic crisis. You profiteered out of a benefit the chancellor intended to secure housing, at the expense of tenants who have been trouble free and rock solid reliable for three years.

This is precisely it! The mortgage break wasn't for you to it have a bit of bother later, it was for your tenants to make their lives easier throughout this epidemic

pctmmn · 12/08/2020 08:35

15Lochroy I can't quote you but thanks that's a great post :)

OP posts:
pctmmn · 12/08/2020 08:36

@GlummyMcGlummerson

You pocketed the mortgage holiday for yourself without passing it on to renters suffering hard in the economic crisis. You profiteered out of a benefit the chancellor intended to secure housing, at the expense of tenants who have been trouble free and rock solid reliable for three years.

This is precisely it! The mortgage break wasn't for you to it have a bit of bother later, it was for your tenants to make their lives easier throughout this epidemic

No it wasn't, it said nothing about this when applying for it. If it was to pass on wouldn't it be made in the terms?
OP posts:
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