To think about kicking out (good) tenants?

[pctmmn]

I've had them for over three years and never missed a payment. But in April they said they were struggling so offered a 1/5th rent discount for three months. When this ended they asked for another three months. It doesn't affect my bottom line has I've taken out a 6 month mortgage holiday and the payments won't increase when they start again as it's added to the term.

I've been able to build up a bit of cash, but one works at a hotel and the other manages a resterant.

Would I be unreasonable to ask them to confirm the full rent needs to be paid for September else I'll give them notice? I really want someone in there paying the full rent and it feels like I'm subbing them right now.

I'd say yes to them for the next three months but say full rent will need to be paid after that.

I am worried about a downward pressure on rents, so wouldn't it be a good idea to kick out the current ones and get some white collar workers with secure jobs on a years contract?

Fucking lovely.

You've got stable tennants who haven't missed a payment in 3 years. That's worth a lot.

Just tell them the rent reduction won't be extended again in September. They sound like good folk who will do their best to sort it out or give notice and go quietly. Don't be a dick about it.

Well you sound as if you have made up your mind. Good luck with squaring your decision with your conscience. Three years of paying your mortgage off for you clearly means nothing in relation to your greed

No point in subsidising renters who may have a permanent change in income. Just delaying the inevitable.

I’ve given my tenants a complete rent holiday, no expectation of repayment, cos he’s lost his job. Rent holiday still ongoing

Wow, that seems very risky to me. How are you even covering the mortgage? Or other costs? Is there any timeframe where the renter will start paying again?

OP you need a chat with them. Maybe for the next three months tell them they will need to eventually repay the discounted amount, and you can add it in to next year’s rent. It will be a risk to try to find new tenants unless you have a very desirable location. Tread carefully.

As far as I am aware the six month holiday will cost you money long term as there will be additional interest. If it wasn’t I would say pass the money ‘saved’ to tenant.

While I would feel for the tenant, are they actually going to be any better off in three months? Could it be worse to prolong the inevitable?

Unless you can afford to write off the discount I do not think I would offer it. May be that happy for 20% to be in arrears with a reasonable payment plan.

I think under Covid you would need to be very careful evicting them currently.

I’m not sure why posters are saying that the tenants should be given a chance to repay the 20% discount. Surely if the LL agreed to reduce rent for x months, they’re not expecting to be paid that money at all?

It’s not like a mortgage holiday where it’s added on at the end, it’s a lower rent for x months.

You sound as helpful as our landlord who came to unsuccessfully fix our 25 year old boiler. Spent 25 minutes moaning about how he used to get £850 for the flat and now gets £560, how hes going to do minimum repairs then sell it on soon. No mention of the fact there are 40 houses for sale or rent on our street which have all been on the market for over 6 months. Completely forgot that the main industry in our city has collapsed and that people are leaving in masses. Completely missed that due to Brexit and covid there are no European workers wanting city centre flats and every single course except medicine and dentistry came up on clearing this year so unlikely to be students. Good luck pal.

@Hodge00079. The LL needed to make it clear that they’d be in arrears back in April, though. I had the impression that they agreed to a 20% discount, full stop. I could be wrong....

I’m a LL and I’d certainly think twice about evicting good tenants. Is it worth a void for maybe a couple of months, redecoration (if needed) and maybe ending up with tenants who just don’t pay and/or trash the place?

@pctmmn

One was furloughed the other lost their job.

I've built up cash because I need to if things get rough!! Better that than defaulting on the mortgage.

I am worried about a downward pressure on rents, so wouldn't it be a good idea to kick out the current ones and get some white collar workers with secure jobs on a years contract?

As someone who’s both landlord and tenant quite frankly I hope you get what’s coming.

Your attitude is unbelievably grabby and by kicking these guys out you’ll inevitably have to drop your monthly rate anyway and/or run the real risk of problem tenants or those who totally financially default.

Have word with them, don’t be a twat.

[quote AmICrazyorWhat2]@Hodge00079. The LL needed to make it clear that they’d be in arrears back in April, though. I had the impression that they agreed to a 20% discount, full stop. I could be wrong....[/quote]
Yeah, they can’t ask for 20% that has ready been discounted. It was agreed they could have that for 3 months.

They could say for next x months only paid 80% but 20% in arrears. I do not think they could do that for too long though as it would be unreasonable to let them accrue a debt which they may not be able to pay off.

You are benefiting from Covid schemes but you don't want them to?

@pctmmn

One was furloughed the other lost their job.

I've built up cash because I need to if things get rough!! Better that than defaulting on the mortgage.

I am worried about a downward pressure on rents, so wouldn't it be a good idea to kick out the current ones and get some white collar workers with secure jobs on a years contract?

Lots of jobs that were secure now aren’t. I have a gardener friend who has barely stopped and is doing well an office worker friend who has been made redundant.

I do realise it is business but when you set up as a landlord you are now involved in people’s lives . It isn’t as clear cut as selling a carpet .

That said give notice that you now need to increase the rent again.

I am worried about a downward pressure on rents, so wouldn't it be a good idea to kick out the current ones and get some white collar workers with secure jobs on a years contract?

OK. Well these are actual human beings living in their home, that is also your house. That's part of the reason some people hope landlords show a bit more decency than people in other lines of business - because you are providing a fundamental service. Leaving that aside for the moment (!) I really don't think it will be easy for you to find other long-term tenants. No-one's job is secure at the moment.

OP will be out of pocket, given that she still has to pay off the full mortgage, albeit over a slightly longer period.

I thought the tenants were paying the mortgage?

“I thought the tenants were paying the mortgage?“

Are people really this thick?

The OP might have been referring to a mortgage holiday on the property she lives in herself. Even if she was referring to the one she rents out, the mortgage agreement is with her. If it’s defaulted on it, or there is any arrangement such as a mortgage holiday and higher repayments later, the deal is between her and the company, not the tenants. If interest rates rise, the deal is with her

Whether you think the OP is being reasonable or not, that’s a fucking stupid thing to think. The tenants pay rent to the LL. There is no comeback on them from the mortgage company

That's part of the reason some people hope landlords show a bit more decency than people in other lines of business - because you are providing a fundamental service

She’s not running a charity! If they will not be in a position to pay the full rent, then they would be better served finding cheaper accommodation. There will likely be plenty of other landlords who want to rent to this couple at a lower price, so why delay the inevitable?

The risk is totally on the OP here. Does she take the risk of an empty flat for a period of time to secure new tenants? Will she find new tenants as reliable as the old? This is something she’ll need to judge for herself.

Also, it sounds like she’s not had a conversation with the current tenants about whether they are likely to be able to pay full rent in the future. She could possibly come to an agreement to continue the discounted rent with the caveat that the extended months will be paid back at some point.

It’s a risk calculation for the LL; the tenants will be fine.

I think you'd be mad. Talk to them, find out their current situation and put an end date on the reduction.

Good tenants are hard to find. You know they are reliable, they talk to you when there is an issue rather than just not paying and they keep your place in good order.

Some people are in an iffy position with furlough. A friend of mine is really struggling as she's been made redundant and her partner was furloughed. His wage is a few pounds over taking them out of any UC entitlement. Once furlough ends they'll be better off because he'll either be working or they'll be entitled to UC.

I'd be amazed if 6/5 was more expense than the eviction process and getting a new tenant in.

@DeRigueurMortis

Good tennents are like gold dust so I'd be careful what you wish for.

Whilst the property purchase market is picking up due to the govt tax discounts that's not true for rental.

In fact (as a LL myself) I expect to see a downward pressure on the rental market in terms of monthly rent.

Lots of people are likely to lose their jobs in the coming months and I'd say there's a fair chance of you losing good tenants only to find you have to offer a discount to attract someone new.

FWIW I gave my tenants a 3 month total rent break which I don't expect repaid and right now they are on half rent.

They both (couple) work in a hard hit sector and have bust a gut to find other (albeit lower paid) work.

I've no intention of evicting them as they are doing all they possibly can in totally unprecedented circumstances and frankly think we all have a moral duty to "take a hit" in these times.

This seems really fair, and you are a great landlord for these times

I'm a very experienced LL.
I would agree their request to extend rent reduction and review in three months. If their situation hadn't improved in three months I'd probably extend the 20% discount again. I wouldn't expect it to be repaid.
It only 20% and good tenants are worth their weight in gold, also, these are unprecedented, difficult times, share the load with them, afterall, your tenants are effectively buying you a house. Kick them out, you could end up with tenants that will cost you thousands and thousands and be a nightmare for you. I know, I've had them.
I have mostly very long term tenants, my oldest tenant has been in his flat more than 20 years, his rent is about 40% below market value (this is all he can afford without leaving him in poverty). I'm not a charity or pretend to be so sort of saint. His rent more that covers the mortgage and he is a good long term bet. This arrangement makes financial sense to me as well. Also, he is now elderly, I will not evict him from his home so I can have even more money, I'm already profiting enough.

That's part of the reason some people hope landlords show a bit more decency than people in other lines of business - because you are providing a fundamental service

Sounds sensible doesn't it?
But respect - and the decency which goes with it - is a two way thing, and it's hard not to notice the reactions on here when something doesn't quite suit a tenant

No pets allowed? Lie about having one
LL wants to do an inspection? They can't force it - tell 'em to f*ck off
In-work tenants preferred? Here's how not to get caught out over your HB
Rent increase levied? You're already paying their mortgage so they're just greedy
LL needs property back? The bastards - here's how to frustrate them
And so on and so on ...

Fortunately the vast majority of LLs and tenants are perfectly decent, which gets forgotten since good news is no news at all, but as said it's rarely a one-way thing when it comes to right and wrong

@Caelano I was being facetious, I thought it was obvious!

Why would there be any comeback to the tenants from the mortgage company? Being a landlord is like any business & all businesses come with risks. Good tenants are hard to
find & many LLs prefer to keep them for a long term gain.

Never underestimate the value of good tenants. That says it all.

If you are not out of pocket, then give them a bit more time. Might be hard to find good ones again. Also, if they did lose their jobs, I guess they could claim housing benefit (I’m not clued up on benefits so am guessing here), and whilst you’re may not normally accept housing benefit tenants, as these people have been good in the past you know you will get your rent and keep the good tenants.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

That's part of the reason some people hope landlords show a bit more decency than people in other lines of business - because you are providing a fundamental service

Sounds sensible doesn't it?
But respect - and the decency which goes with it - is a two way thing, and it's hard not to notice the reactions on here when something doesn't quite suit a tenant

No pets allowed? Lie about having one
LL wants to do an inspection? They can't force it - tell 'em to f*ck off
In-work tenants preferred? Here's how not to get caught out over your HB
Rent increase levied? You're already paying their mortgage so they're just greedy
LL needs property back? The bastards - here's how to frustrate them
And so on and so on ...

Fortunately the vast majority of LLs and tenants are perfectly decent, which gets forgotten since good news is no news at all, but as said it's rarely a one-way thing when it comes to right and wrong

Fully agree with the above but that's also why when you have good tenants who don't take the piss it's worth hanging on to them even if it's less profitable in the very short term.

In my experience (most) people respond in kind to how they are treated, so treat a tenant well by providing good quality accommodation at a reasonable price, fixing issues promptly etc and they in turn will look after the property, pay on time, allow access when requested at reasonable notice for reasonable reasons etc.

Of course there are absolute nasty buggers around and as you say some people who think LL's "deserve" shit treatment which is bloody dispiriting and expensive to experience (which I've done once) and I can see why some LL's end up becoming utterly cynical.