Elderly drivers should be tested

[HeidiHoNeighbour]

91 year old killed a 3 year old in Edinburgh.
She’s been arrested.

Where I live (NW London) lots of elderly drivers are scarier than the teens racing.

A woman was killed in Sainsbury’s car park near me and the 80ish year old was upset he’d be late!

I think everyone should be retested every ten years.

I think we've got crossed wires @VinylDetective. I'm certainly not arguing that the 60-69yr olds are any less capable. I don't agree with you on the 70-80yr group because the study isn't comprehensive enough to back up your claim they don't decline, because it doesn't take into account the change in journeys. And even if you take the figures at face value, the 70-80 group do show a decline from the 60-69.

I don't think the insurance premiums are that relevant tbh. If you're a crap 20yr old driver with average mileage, chances are your accidents will involve a claim, enough 20yr olds do the same and the premiums are high for every 20yr old. If you become a crap 80yr old driver, chances are they'll be minor enough not to claim, or indeed blame the other driver, so there isn't a rise in premiums. Unfortunately the serious accidents will have to increase before there are enough statistics to say 80+ premiums reflect ability.

It doesn’t need to take changes of journey into account. Because it’s only surmise that there are any. It quite clearly states

Rates of injuries and deaths per mile driven of drivers, their passengers and other people outside of the driver’s vehicle were calculated by dividing the total number of people injured and killed in crashes involving subject drivers in each age group by the total number of miles driven by drivers in the same age group

In other words a level playing field.

Also, people might not be able to drive long distances anymore or not at night or not on the motorway so no longer use the car for those trips which then in turn stops them from being unsafe so to speak.

I think acknowledging that you have certain limitations is the safest way- my mum for example can't drive long distances without fairly frequent breakers and absolutely refuses to drive during sunset (she says she can't see a thing!) and the amount of people trying to persuade her to just push herself.

absolutely refuses to drive during sunset (she says she can't see a thing!)

I don’t blame her. I won’t drive at sunset on the shortest days in the winter, the sun’s so low in the sky it’s blinding. I will, however, drive as many miles as my bladder will allow without stopping.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8619789/Horrifying-moment-woman-75-loses-control-SUV-plows-Atlanta-hospital-killing-one.html

Of course younger drivers can be wreckless which is unacceptable, but how many 'lose control', smash into a building killing one and injuring others, and don't get charged?

@Choochoose

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8619789/Horrifying-moment-woman-75-loses-control-SUV-plows-Atlanta-hospital-killing-one.html

Of course younger drivers can be wreckless which is unacceptable, but how many 'lose control', smash into a building killing one and injuring others, and don't get charged?

This is in the USA so not relevant to retesting in the UK.

For a start they could make it easier to cancel licences of people with dementia, when family absolutely know they’re no longer safe on the road.
I’ve read many times of relatives in despair at the failure of the GP or anyone else official to listen, when they know there’s an accident - maybe a fatal one - just waiting to happen.

Sometimes the only option is to take away the keys or disable the car in some way, but this often results in the person just being furious with family, when blaming it on officialdom would be so much less stressful.

IME, it's not the failure of the GP to listen, it's families threatening the GP when they've known for a significant time there is a problem. If they were confident their parents were safe then they wouldn't be unhappy about a retest. When asked and they're being honest, they won't let the grand children drive with their parent or as a passenger themselves, they are just happy for the parent to endanger non-family members.

All drivers should be retested every 10 years

I agree with you in theory but ide personally like to take it one step further and say once every ten years or so once you pass your test you have to do sort of a refresher lesson.
Its ridiculous that we have a few lessons pass a test then are pretty much free to drive for the rest of our lives without anyone ever regoing over things with us.

@MorganKitten

All drivers should be retested every 10 years

It would certainly reduce the volume of traffic on the roads. I don’t think many people who took their test more than five years ago would pass if they had to retake.

I think retesting every 10 years is a tad too much.

How about retesting people who have lost their licence ? Because really if you manage to rack up 12 points in separate offences you must be a shit driver. So I don't think it's to onerous to take the attitude that you need to earn your licence back.

Won't happen, of course.

I think driving should be much more tightly restricted in general
I agree but people are very wedded to their cars.... cars symbolise freedom independence wealth, people don't like to let go of that!

Everyone should be retested every 10 years from when they pass their first test. Anyone can be a crap driver no matter what their age is.

There is just too much money at stake, the profits from car manufacture and all the associated industries, they are all powerfully positioned to put pressure on government so that governments will not do anything that could reduce their profits.

£10 per year seems a snip for the privilege of driving
I noticed that you bolded the word 'privilege' and I think this is a key thing...we don't see driving as a privilege we see it as a right or (as pointed out by previous poster) something which is a hallmark of adulthood, those who do not drive are mocked and derided.
Of course it is in the interests of those in car manufacturer and related industries for everyone to desire the biggest hungriest car they can get their hands on and to drive it it to the corner shop even though it be quicker to walk.

Well this is pretty ageist isn’t it.

Those between 17 & 19 make up 1.5% of drivers but are the drivers involved in 9% of fatal or serious road accidents (2018).
The same year, 99 drivers between 17 & 24 died behind the wheel and 1170 were seriously injured.

Drivers over 70 are marginally less likely to crash than all drivers below that age. So NOT more dangerous at all.

According to Swansea University, drivers between 17 & 21 were four times more likely to crash than those over 70.

Sorry op but the stats don’t support your view.

Retesting everyone is impractical, but changes such as opticians & gps being required to share eye tests or relevant medical information with the DVLA might be effective for all ages.

Buts it's not ageist. Young drivers do cause accidents which is why they are subject to additional restrictions based purely on their age. I fail to see why its allowed for one age group but not for another.

Unless of course its OK to be ageist to young people? If its not OK to ask elderly (70+) to meet certain conditions then its not OK to do that to under 30's.

I said the same thing @Mintjulia but apparently the stats count for nothing in the face of the MN prejudice against anyone over 70.

1. Drivers in the UK over 85? (would need to check the age) are four times more likely to be the cause of a crash than the subject of another driver's error. If there wasn't a competence issue then, all things being equal, I'd expect it to be 50/50 not, 80/20.

And this ignores the incidents that go unreported (the repeated driving into stationary objects and crashes without another party).

2. I haven't got a problem with a driver of any age with an impairment being reported to the DVLA. It's just that I've seen the families of several elderly drivers fighting against that more than I see the families of younger drivers with different but equivalent impairments. I don't know if it's the different dynamic and parents of younger drivers caring for their children's safety in a different way. And I don't exclude HCPs outside their professional roles, one of the more recent ones I had in mind was where the two children of the impaired driver were both HCPs who lived away, were fully aware of their parents' impairments, wouldn't let the grandchildren drive with their grandparents but fought tooth and nail then got viciously abusive.

The insurance companies are probably the best indicator of risk because they pick up the bill.

Young drivers are 3-4 times more likely to crash which is why black boxes are used to track and modify behaviour. That’s not ageist, it’s a statistically proven fact.

Drivers up to 80yo are no more likely to crash than the general population of experienced drivers, so they aren’t limited in any way. If extra tests were demanded for no reason, that would be ageist.

But yes, eye test info related to drivers of any age should be passed to the dvla. Including whether drivers must wear glasses to drive.

Yesterday, I saw an elderly driver drive at speed into the entrance to a service road to some shops. I suspect that he had intended to brake. He didn't see the low, metal barrier that smashed his headlight and scraped along about half of the passenger side of his car. Nor did he see the double yellow lines on the road. He got out of his car to see what that awful loud noise was, and wobbled the loose headlight and wing. He left his car there and carried on to the shops as planned.

I post this every time this subject comes up and it may have already been mentioned and probably has but 'Cassies Law'...It was a real chance to introduce proper change and it was missed.

I came across the aftermath of that incident and cannot walk down that street anymore. That poor girl with her whole life ahead of her killed by an ignorant man who refused to stop driving when asked to by the police.

I cringe everytime I see elderly people shuffling along barely able to negotiate getting up and down a pavement who then get in a fucking car. Absolutely NO hope of them being able to emergency stop or react in time to anything. It's a disgrace.

Now another poor family wrecked.

I think the issue is due to the fact there have been significant socio demographic changes and the legislation hasn't kept up with this.

We have more very elderly drivers on the road than ever before and more of them driving. By very elderly I mean over 85. By more of them driving I mean just not because the increase in life expectancy means more on the road but there are more elderly woman drivers. Whilst of course that is how it should be, neither of my grandmothers could drive which wasn't unusual for the time. I started nursing in the early 1980s, the average age of death was early to mid 70s for men and late 70s for women. Now it's increased by 10 years or thereabouts. Elderly people back then often died from their first significant illness but now we live longer but not necessarily in the best health. Issues such as macular degeneration have increased due to the fact we live long enough to get it.

To all those who think it's easy just to report their elderly relatives - I think my mum (82) is on the cusp of having to give up driving but she won't. My husband has been out with her and given her some lessons as her driving was very slow with a some random braking. We have had the conversation about giving up but we had tears and tantrums. It was mentioned to both her GP and her hospital consultants - she's under 3- and I was there as she likes me to go to her appts with her so I can translate the medical jargon as I am a nurse but all have said she's okay to drive from their perspective (she has cardiac problems, rheumatoid arthritis & a kidney disease) and whilst there are signs of the beginning of a cognitive decline, she is deemed to have full mental capacity. So what else can I do?

I think some of the comments on this post have been ageist but not all - I'm surprised at the number of people who think being over 60 is old - I'm guessing they're in the 20s & early 30s. Believe me, you won't think it's old when you're in you're mid 50s like me!

I plan to be like my dad and give up as soon as I feel wobbly about driving but I think we can all lose some self awareness as we get older so I won't take the moral high ground and say I'll definitely do that - who knows how I'll see the world in 30 years time. I'm hoping driverless cars will be a thing!

As far as I can see it's fairly normal for elderly people to become blinkered and not really see the needs of others, in a way it is understandable, if your body is failing and your car is your only means of independence you are strongly incentivized to cling onto your car and ignore the dangers to other people.
The attitude of 'give up driving???... over my dead body' is very common