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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Elderly drivers should be tested

306 replies

HeidiHoNeighbour · 10/08/2020 22:49

91 year old killed a 3 year old in Edinburgh.
She’s been arrested.

Where I live (NW London) lots of elderly drivers are scarier than the teens racing.

A woman was killed in Sainsbury’s car park near me and the 80ish year old was upset he’d be late!

I think everyone should be retested every ten years.

OP posts:
alexdgr8 · 14/08/2020 03:19

could you try to persuade her have an assessment lesson with a driving instructor.

KickAssAngel · 14/08/2020 03:48

The other problem with public transport is that it really is not accessible for many people with limited mobility. Where my parents live there are loads of buses and trains, but my mum can't even walk to the bus stop. My Dad couldn't push her in a wheel chair. Neither of them could make it up the steps of a bus. Fortunately they have enough money to pay for food to be delivered, but getting older can be incredibly lonely and grim. You would think that lockdown would give people some compassion and motivate them to find solutions, but that isn't happening, is it?

MinesAPintOfTea · 14/08/2020 06:54

@stellabluesky I put a link early on in this thread to an elderly driving assessment centre. My grandpa agreed to go to prove he was safe to drive and see if they had anything to make driving easier for him.

Left having agreed to give up his licence and car was sold within the week. An objective outside view helps.

MinesAPintOfTea · 14/08/2020 06:56

And the saving on his insurance would pay for about 4 taxis/week around his local town: without running the risk of an accident. He can afford more than that.

stellabluesky · 14/08/2020 10:07

Thanks @MinesAPintOfTea I'll keep that in mind. Her driving is better since my DH went out with her.
Let's see how long she sustains this!

Glamazoni · 14/08/2020 10:18

Every ten years from passing your test
This has the potential to destroy lives. My husband drives our eldest son to school because it’s too far to go on public transport, then he drives to work which is impossible to get to without a car. If he was retested and they removed his licence he would lose his job and we’d be unable to pay our mortgage. Our son would be unable to attend school.

I would support a regular refresher course for driving and retesting to check for deterioration at an advanced age. But I wouldn’t want to see a parent in their 40s lose their licence and end up losing everything.

DGRossetti · 14/08/2020 10:35

But I wouldn’t want to see a parent in their 40s lose their licence and end up losing everything.

Even if they are a danger to others ?

DGRossetti · 14/08/2020 10:38

The other problem with public transport is that it really is not accessible for many people with limited mobility.

I think the point there is that the less able really should learn to limit their expectations. This is 2020. Tory Britain. Where life for the less able is worse than 10 years ago, and that was worse than 20 years ago. DW used to say "Have wheelchair:will travel". Now it's "Have wheelchair ? You're fucked."

Glamazoni · 14/08/2020 10:43

Even if they are a danger to others?
Are they really a danger though? I’ve done enough driving tests to know that they fail you for stupid little things. Do you really think they should take someone’s licence away because they accidentally pulled away in 2nd gear instead of 1st, or made a wrong turn, or waited to turn right in the wrong position?

MorrisZapp · 14/08/2020 10:44

My best friends dad is in his eighties. He picked her up at the airport recently and on the way home started driving on the hard shoulder. When friend told him what he was doing he was annoyed about 'bad signage'. Everybody in their family rolls their eyes and says 'he shouldn't be driving' but actually stopping him seems beyond them. It's a very difficult conversation to have I guess.

LonelyFromCorona · 14/08/2020 10:52

YANBU I see far more elderly absently drifting over lane markings, making a 15 point reversal into supermarket car parking space, pulling out without checking both ways sufficiently than I do young teens speeding around or anything (in fact I'm of the view most young drivers are better than most adults in say 30-50 year old range)

JoeCalFuckingZaghe · 14/08/2020 10:56

Honestly I think everyone should be made to resit every 10 years, both theory and practical. You become lax and get into bad habits. I was sitting driving lessons (passed theory) before lockdown, so I know people will say "you'll change your mind once you pass" but honestly, some of the things drivers seemingly forget or just become so switched off to is scary.

DGRossetti · 14/08/2020 10:56

Even if they are a danger to others?

Are they really a danger though?

If they cannot reach and maintain the pretty low bar set by the driving test then yes. With knobs on.

I’ve done enough driving tests to know that they fail you for stupid little things.

OK ......

Do you really think they should take someone’s licence away because they accidentally pulled away in 2nd gear instead of 1st, or made a wrong turn, or waited to turn right in the wrong position?

I am suspecting that you and I have very different ideas about driving. All I can say is that my view centres around demonstrating you have complete control of a tonne of metal at all times, and that you are physically and mentally capable of dealing with whatever the conditions throw at you.

Anything less is really just reserving a coffin for a child.

Now maybe my standards are too high ? I don't know. But I would much much rather a few borderline drivers did not get a licence than start to see the RTA fatalities creep up.

We return to the point that I stand by - whether it's popular or not - that driving is a privilege not a god given right.

Porcupineinwaiting · 14/08/2020 11:02

Even if you test people every 10 years that's not going to solve the problem of elderly people driving dangerously. A person who drives perfectly well at 75 could easily deteriorate long before 85.

Porcupineinwaiting · 14/08/2020 11:05

@Glamazoni would you really be happy with your husband driving your son to school if he couldn't even pass his driving test? Why have a test at all then?

Glamazoni · 14/08/2020 11:06

driving is a privilege not a god given right
The problem is that nowadays our society is set up to require people to drive. People no longer live, work, study and shop in the same village. It’s impossible to walk or cycle to these places and public transport is inadequate. If you can’t drive you’re screwed, especially when it comes to job opportunities. The economic and social damage caused by removing licences would far outweigh the risk of fatal accidents.

Porcupineinwaiting · 14/08/2020 11:08

That makes no sense. The alternative would be be to take some refresher lessons and pass the test, not suffer a lifetime of economic blight or drive dangerously.

BoingBoingyBoing · 14/08/2020 11:12

There is definately an argument that drivers should retest periodically.

Passing a test at 17 in no way ensures that anyone is still a safe and capable driver 10/20 years on and as they go into older age.

I would also mandate that anyone who has a licence but has not driven in a long period of time has to retake the test.

Glamazoni · 14/08/2020 11:14

Glamazoni would you really be happy with your husband driving your son to school if he couldn't even pass his driving test?
You can fail repeatedly then pass on another occasion, then probably fail again if you continued taking tests. I’m not convinced that the driving test actually tests your driving ability. You can fail because someone else creates a hazard and you hesitate, or because the route is unfamiliar and you take a wrong turn, or because the examiner decided you aren’t looking in your mirrors enough (even if you are). Passing in the first place is about luck not skill.

Choochoose · 14/08/2020 11:15

If you can’t drive you’re screwed, especially when it comes to job opportunities

Yet plenty of people cannot afford to have lessons or run a car, and has been the case for decades. What you mean is that people who can afford such can find better paid work elsewhere, whilst the many who can't are stuck with the low paid jobs, and thus the circle continues. It sadly is still very much a priveledge and not a right, as it's out of reach for many already.

Porcupineinwaiting · 14/08/2020 11:21

Passing in the first place is about luck not skill

Oh I think it is mostly skill. And I'm sure I'd be far more likely to pass a driving test after 30 years driving than I would be to fail due to "bad luck". Bit worrying that you dont tbh.

Glamazoni · 14/08/2020 11:22

The alternative would be be to take some refresher lessons and pass the test
People would have to take emergency leave from work because they couldn’t drive and cram in intensive lessons because they urgently need their licence back. They struggle to afford lessons the first time around, can you imagine if they unexpectedly had to find hundreds of pounds at short notice to do refresher lessons and repeatedly attempt the test to regain their licence. There would undoubtedly be some people who took ages to pass the first time and wouldn’t be able to pass again in time to avoid losing their job. There would be people driving illegally because they need to drive. It would be a mess.

DGRossetti · 14/08/2020 11:22

When I worked in insurance, the actuaries were very clear about the statistics of driving (since they had to pay out on them).

I nicked my suggestion upthread from them. That you use the existing penalty point system as a marker for driver competence (because it is) and mandate retests at a certain demonstrable level of crap driving. (They felt 3 points would be most sensible ...).

So that's an industry expert view of using the existing system (so minimal cost) to reduce RTAs (and insurance payouts).

DGRossetti · 14/08/2020 11:25

I’m not convinced that the driving test actually tests your driving ability

That's shifting the argument slightly. Personally I'm sympathetic to that view - an awful lot of qualifications are predicated upon completely spurious criteria.

But that's the world we live in. You can only work with (a) what you have, and (b) what people are prepared to pay for. So for the that is: not much, and even less.

DGRossetti · 14/08/2020 11:31

@Glamazoni

The alternative would be be to take some refresher lessons and pass the test People would have to take emergency leave from work because they couldn’t drive and cram in intensive lessons because they urgently need their licence back. They struggle to afford lessons the first time around, can you imagine if they unexpectedly had to find hundreds of pounds at short notice to do refresher lessons and repeatedly attempt the test to regain their licence. There would undoubtedly be some people who took ages to pass the first time and wouldn’t be able to pass again in time to avoid losing their job. There would be people driving illegally because they need to drive. It would be a mess.
I think we get it. You're just going to invent a load of edge cases centred around the least organised and least capable people in society as "proof" of something that hasn't yet been clearly defined.

It's a miracle so many millions of people manage to get their cars MOTd by your picture of society. My gosh ! The horror. Having to arrange for a test that you've only known about for 12 months. How do people cope ?

Can you agree with my assertion that driving is a privilege, not a right ? Because if you don't there's no point continuing. Your view will always be that everyone+dog should get a licence, driving lessons, free car, squeaky toy and the like, against my view that you need to prove your fitness to hold a licence at the time of test and at appropriate points subsequent to that.