To think, without upsetting anybody, we are massively overpopulated on this tiny Island??? What sensible non punitive solutions are there??

[PasstheBucket89]

Its pretty relevant with all the talk about migrant boats, priti patel saying she will make the passage unviable etc she has done some awful things, it makes my blood run cold tbh i doubt she cares about the safety of them in that boats. But, what di we do, and when suggestions are made its often motivated by hate not quality of life issues. And yes, the ageing massively adds to the overpopulation aswell, but what should we do? reasonably? this tiny Island is massively overpopulated, it doesn't benefit anyone to be crammed in like sardines like this, massively effects access to housing, healthcare, education etc, What should the gov do, not adding to the hostile environment??.

@Walkaround so you think the country is overpopulated and yet there's no reason why the native population can't have as many children as they want...?

@Stripesgalore

‘Asylum seekers make up a very small minority of immigrants. The number of people who sought asylum in the UK last year is the equivalent of 0.05% of the UKpopulation.’

I don’t know what figures we should be comparing this to. From what I can work out, natural increase from birth rate in the U.K. is 0.1% of the population. So where has the massive population increase come from?

It's because people live longer isn't it?

I watched some talk with a guy who had lots of toilet rolls as props, he explained it well but I can't ever put it into words...

@Stripesgalore So where has the massive population increase come from?

As a poster earlier mentioned, the population has doubled in a period of 140 years, is that a massive increase ? or an expected increase ?

@DameFanny - which part of the fact that the native population already have a fertility rate below replacement value do you not comprehend?!?! Nobody born in the UK needs to be told to have fewer children, as we are already not producing enough children to sustain our population size! Population growth is driven by immigration, not local childbirth rates.

Or, @DameFanny, are you really trying to argue that even below replacement fertility levels is too much, and people born in this country shouldn’t be having children at all?!

Population growth is driven by immigration, not local childbirth rates.

And yet net migration is much smaller than the death rate and very much smaller than the birth rate ?

Thank you! @Walkaround, the conditions in these french camps are awful 😔😔 truly heartbreaking, im also surprised kids remain their i know they wanna be with the parents but, its a terrible state, not humane at all. And yes, it also hasn't escaped me that the homeless population is overwhelming young white men, often also ex veterans, seems to be no safety net. i do genuinely wonder why that is.

I would expect there to be a huge increase following the developments in industry, globalisation and medicine over 140 years, although of course some areas of the U.K. have become depopulated.

The current situation would be about considering very recent patterns and future predictions. Birth rates are predicted to decline in most countries, but there will be massive movements of people globally due to environmental change.

‘It's because people live longer isn't it?‘

No, because natural increase takes that into account.

I think talking about the advantages and net contributions immigrants bring to the uk is missing the point somewhat. It's those that already have the least whom are expected to solely absorb the disadvantages. Until that changes I don't think those of us privileged enough to only gain are in a position to judge those whom only stand to lose.

If we look back at Irish economic migrants nobody would really suggest that eg post Napoleonic war the average working class person was just being racist to resent immigration. It's widely accepted that the wealthy just exploited the starving population of a country they'd repeatedly fucked over, and used the over supply of workers to drive down conditions further for the English poor. And 200yrs later we still don't seem to have learnt anything from it.

Looking at the overcrowding on our beaches and considering the fact you can bare go anywhere to escape noise and air pollution in the south of the UK, we are overpopulated, but it is mainly confined to the South East. We have more people per square foot than any other European country bar Luxembourg. The governments policy is to keep filling the funnel to keep the capitalist money machine fed through taxes. It's an abysmal betrayal of our quality of life and I for one am looking to escape the madness in the next ten years by moving to rural France. Life in England is becoming undignified.

‘It's because people live longer isn't it?‘

I think that has actually plateaued and in some areas of the UK decreased ? The average age of death in the UK has risen by about ten years over the last 50 years to about 81 years of age.

Surely, those who arrive here with nothing will be a drain on our health and social services at a time when money for these will be at an all time low? I speak as a mother of a disabled child who has to fight all the time for her to receive the care she needs. Why can't Britain back a population control system in countries where there appears to be none. That would be of great help to women no matter their country of domicile.

Oh FFS @Walkaround I'm not telling anyone to have fewer children, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of people saying we're overpopulated and then doing their best to increase the population further 'because they're entitled'. Is that so hard to understand? I don't believe we're overpopulated. Read my actual words, rather than the ones you're making up in your head.

Will you be calling yourself an economic or political migrant @stressing?

Anyone who says Britain isn't overcrowded, obviously doesn't live in London. During lockdown, the fight for a bit of open space was ridiculous and depressing. I also live in one of the boroughs which is where many economic migrants live. I will say that I find the quality of life here to be declining and still they plan to stuff more and more housing in here. The residents are unhappy because our piece of resource/infrastructure pie is getting sliced thinner and thinner, with the increasing population.

As far as these boat arrivals go, they are trying their luck. I do not agree with country shopping and would not consider them to be refugees. They know they won't get deported and they can melt into areas such as mine, where they will get black market jobs. I would like to see the UK send them back. But they won't.

But there is no natural increase in the U.K. population. If some people have three or four kids or even six we would still be around replacement rate because many women don’t have any children.

damefanny why do I need to specify exactly?

Just idly wondering

@DameFanny - you could try swearing less and responding to points made more... If the fertility rate in the UK is below replacement levels, then there is nothing whatsoever hypocritical about people with more than 2 children pointing out that they are not in any meaningful sense contributing to UK population growth or even population sustainability, as the fertility rate means population over time will decrease, not increase. However, not enough young people in the population in comparison to the number of elderly is an economic nightmare, so immigration fills the gap left by low birth rates. So having fewer children is having no effect on the fact the UK is over-populated, is it? So why argue it is logical to have fewer children to deal with over-population, if the gap is just going to be filled by immigration?

Neither. I will, like most migrants, be looking for a better life.

So you're arguing that native (white) people are allowed to have babies because the native (white) birthrate is 1.7 even though population growth (driven by foreign often non-white people) is itself bad because we're already overpopulated?

There's something ugly on this thread and it isn't an unspelt 'fuck'

@DameFanny - last time I looked, not everyone born in the UK was white. Why are you so obsessed with people whose colour you are not even aware of having children? Why are you assuming they are white? Why are you assuming immigrants need to have children in order to increase the size of the population?

The native population of the U.K. isn’t white. We are a multicultural society.

The challenges faced when a society has a natural increase or decrease are serious but they are not the same challenges as those of immigration.

There is a need to make a distinction between the two when looking at population change and its impacts.

I'm not assuming immigrants need to have children - where on earth did you get that from? You're saying native UKers can have children but we're overpopulated so no one must move here. What are you saying?