To think, without upsetting anybody, we are massively overpopulated on this tiny Island??? What sensible non punitive solutions are there??

[PasstheBucket89]

Its pretty relevant with all the talk about migrant boats, priti patel saying she will make the passage unviable etc she has done some awful things, it makes my blood run cold tbh i doubt she cares about the safety of them in that boats. But, what di we do, and when suggestions are made its often motivated by hate not quality of life issues. And yes, the ageing massively adds to the overpopulation aswell, but what should we do? reasonably? this tiny Island is massively overpopulated, it doesn't benefit anyone to be crammed in like sardines like this, massively effects access to housing, healthcare, education etc, What should the gov do, not adding to the hostile environment??.

And everyone is ‘allowed’ to have a baby, unless someone is proposing eugenics.

But as a democracy we have particular responsibilities to our own citizens, and we have a responsibility to make policies depending upon what as a country we want to see in terms of natural increase and decrease. Every competent government in the world does.

You don't have to be in London, or the South East to see massive overpopulation. I created this thread so people could actually have sensible conversations about serious issues, without hysterical labelling i Dont think some posters want that, maybe its not the right thread for them?. its not a bunfight thread, its for people to air their valid concerns.

Throw out anyone who voted for brexit. I know it would be controversial but it would be effective. They all seem very cross so it might cheer the place up.

‘You're saying native UKers can have children but we're overpopulated so no one must move here. What are you saying?’

Is anyone saying the native U.K. population can’t have children? That really is not an option.

Most of the population already here cannot afford to have lots of dc. Why not help them first

We have high unemployment now due to Covid and it feels overcrowded in the South East

I would say the right to have children is greater for the native citizens of any given country than the right for a non native citizen to move to that same country. What's wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with it Stressing. The UN says the same.

We're either overpopulated or we're not is all I'm saying, and people are being hypocritical about who's making up those numbers

I don't think we're overpopulated - I think we have a massive problem with distribution of wealth, both geographically and across the population. This is something we should be working on urgently

And we'll be seeing massive influxes from the South as the climate crisis accelerates - and we should be working on this urgently

Also it's just funding the traffickers and exploitation of people

It isn’t as simple as overpopulated or not. Different demographic patterns require different policy solutions.

Now I do agree with you on that dame. We could all live better, but there are no policies for that, in fact quite the opposite. To live more sustainably would mean going without and that goes against the capitalism that runs to the core of this country. Sadly, we're on a very dark path in the UK as we put economic growth before anything else. The population situation is part of the formula.

isn't the need to replace low birth rates with external population last century's argument?
We are constantly being told that there will be massive job loss due to AI. Old people will have more independence through driverless cars and robots doing caring chores (Japan already developing).
What we are really saying with bringing in migrants isn't it is that we need people to do jobs that the locals don't want to do? Pay enough and then people will do those jobs. However, paying enough for those jobs would need a more equal society which is not in the interests of those holding most of the assets, thus the myth of needing to bring in migrants to do badly paid jobs living in poor accommodation continues and is hidden in plain sight behind a narrative of helping when actually it is nothing but gross exploitation.

‘And we'll be seeing massive influxes from the South as the climate crisis accelerates - and we should be working on this urgently’

That depends who you mean by ‘we.’

The U.K. will see very large numbers of people trying to get to the U.K.. That doesn’t mean we have to allow those people in.

@DameFanny - funnily enough, people who think we are overpopulated don’t want to cease all reproductive activity so that we can end up over- populated with elderly people who are close to death with nobody to care for them. Why would it be in any way more desirable to actively choose to have no children of your own and then import people unrelated to you to wipe your bottom and pay tax to cover your pension - and also tell them not to have children when they get here, because they are only here to wipe your bottom, not to overpopulate the place?

Go back to my earlier point that unless you also fancy volunteering to get yourself euthanased, it’s not illogical to argue that the country is already over populated and you don’t want to make that problem worse by genuinely increasing the long term population, but do recognise you can’t actually decrease the size of the current population by giving up on giving birth without that causing a different type of nightmare?

@silentpool

Anyone who says Britain isn't overcrowded, obviously doesn't live in London. During lockdown, the fight for a bit of open space was ridiculous and depressing. I also live in one of the boroughs which is where many economic migrants live. I will say that I find the quality of life here to be declining and still they plan to stuff more and more housing in here. The residents are unhappy because our piece of resource/infrastructure pie is getting sliced thinner and thinner, with the increasing population.

As far as these boat arrivals go, they are trying their luck. I do not agree with country shopping and would not consider them to be refugees. They know they won't get deported and they can melt into areas such as mine, where they will get black market jobs. I would like to see the UK send them back. But they won't.

It just encourages more people to come.

Our NHS is overburdened and what skills do the arrivals actually have. Black economy is no good

We - everyone, everywhere. The climate crisis is a bad thing.

Agree with a PP, no matter what our population is there should not be a free for all for any economic migrant who fancies coming here because of the welfare system, free housing, little chance of being repatriated etc etc. Oh and also no need to learn English as translators are provided. They are passing through many age countries to get here, and being allowed to keep going as other countries do not want to deal with it. France receives a lot of money from the UK to deal with this, but unsurprisingly seem to turn a blind eye to what happens on their coast, as long as it's only one way traffic of course. I get pissed off every time I hear news presenters/ liberal 'celebs' whining about these poor people bravely risking their lives .. blah blah. To go from one perfectly safe country to another which will benefit them more. Boo boo.

Yes, I think we are looking at change due to AI, greater need to produce our own food, further pandemics and sustainability over growth.

Funnily enough, I don't think the majority of people on this thread saying we're overpopulated are making any kind of nuanced analysis of demographics, no

Sleep tight all, be glad you're not in a dinghy

The ageing population argument is a bit of a red herring IMO. Yes the population is ageing, but many ppl stay healthier for longer. We should be encouraged to work for much longer. The retirement age was set when life expectancy was 65. Being useful for longer will mean we are mentally and physically active and this wards off many illnesses, meaning the population would be less dependent on nhs.

We are not overpopulated and even if we were we should still take our share of refugees instead of leaving it to other countries to shoulder the burden.

Your complaints are actually about shit government and inequality not some people in a dinghy.

It's hard to credit that you are actually so naive rather than trolling.

What we are really saying with bringing in migrants isn't it is that we need people to do jobs that the locals don't want to do? Pay enough and then people will do those jobs. However, paying enough for those jobs would need a more equal society which is not in the interests of those holding most of the assets, thus the myth of needing to bring in migrants to do badly paid jobs living in poor accommodation continues and is hidden in plain sight behind a narrative of helping when actually it is nothing but gross exploitation.

That is beautifully put. There were recent discussions about the fruit picking problems which highlighted this.

Is anyone saying the native U.K. population can’t have children? That really is not an option.

I don’t think many people are complaining about legal and controlled immigration either to be honest.

When ‘white’ people having babies was mentioned in a pp, I almost choked on my drink. @DameFanny my understanding of ‘Brits’ is literally anyone born here. That would include people of many colours and backgrounds.

I don’t know why this has to be made into something to do with colour? It’s not. The quality of life remaining good for ALL Brits is what I want to see remain. We have a duty to help others arriving legally, but not at the detriment of the people who already live here.

I’m proud to be part of a very ethnically diverse family. Some of my family live abroad and I imagine and accept that if hey wanted to come to the U.K. they’d have to go through the appropriate channels.

The only thing I personally am against is uncontrolled, illegal immigration.

Why do we need to keep increasing our population level or even sustaining it.

Why can't we take in less migrants and let the population level naturally decrease. Less competition for jobs and housing will mean quality of life will go up. People will then probably start having more kids and the population will level itself out.

Needing old people looked after isn't a reason to let a stream of unskilled workers come to the country. You've no guarantee they'll even work in care. Surely better to improve the care system so it doesn't rely on immigration, which would be more sustainable.

An ever increasing population can't be the answer. Where does it end?

But I'm sure between the obesity crisis and dormant CJD - our elderly population won't be a problem for much longer.