To think, without upsetting anybody, we are massively overpopulated on this tiny Island??? What sensible non punitive solutions are there??

[PasstheBucket89]

Its pretty relevant with all the talk about migrant boats, priti patel saying she will make the passage unviable etc she has done some awful things, it makes my blood run cold tbh i doubt she cares about the safety of them in that boats. But, what di we do, and when suggestions are made its often motivated by hate not quality of life issues. And yes, the ageing massively adds to the overpopulation aswell, but what should we do? reasonably? this tiny Island is massively overpopulated, it doesn't benefit anyone to be crammed in like sardines like this, massively effects access to housing, healthcare, education etc, What should the gov do, not adding to the hostile environment??.

@Walkaround nobody lives forever. Attrition rate is 100%. So reducing the birthrate reduces population size - no euthanasia required.

@labyrinthloafer

Are the people arriving by boat, from France all refugees?

Nobody needs to seek refuge from the French Government.

[quote DBML]@labyrinthloafer

Are the people arriving by boat, from France all refugees?[/quote]
I haven't met them!

@labyrinthloafer

So you don’t know.

As they are coming from France, would you agree that they should apply to enter our country legally at least?

So we know who they are and can admit them by need, because like you I believe in helping those most in need.

[quote DBML]@labyrinthloafer

So you don’t know.

As they are coming from France, would you agree that they should apply to enter our country legally at least?

So we know who they are and can admit them by need, because like you I believe in helping those most in need.[/quote]
Perhaps we won't agree about much on this topic, who knows.

I have heard personal stories and they were astounding.

Sometimes people say they want to help 'the most needy' because they want to help a smaller number.

@DameFanny - you do realise people live long enough, especially with modern healthcare, to cause big problems with overpopulation?... Also humanitarian problems if a population is mostly elderly, with only a very small young and healthy population to sustain them?

I think more aid needs to be given closer to the source of the problem - but what can the world do if the leaders of countries are willing to completely destroy their own country rather than let anyone else take over, and for political reasons, other countries and factional groups only serve to exacerbate the problems? How do we deal with that???

I do realise that people live for decades, yes. But if people were to have only one child per parent they overall population would be a stable number - and gradually decline due to people dying before becoming parents, infertility, choice etc. I'm not proposing that anyway. I'm saying that if you think the country is overpopulated and have more than 2 children between you and your partner then you're a hypocrite ¯\(ツ)/¯

[quote MeredithJim]You do know that’s only 12% of Britain is built on. We’re no where near overpopulated

fullfact.org/economy/has-92-country-not-been-built/[/quote]
If more land gets built on the harder it is to feed everybody.... that land is needed for food

@labyrinthloafer

There isn’t a country/person in the world who can help everyone. It’s not possible. You have to differentiate those who need the most help first.

What terrible thing has Priti Patel done to people trying to illegally enter the country?

[quote DBML]@labyrinthloafer

There isn’t a country/person in the world who can help everyone. It’s not possible. You have to differentiate those who need the most help first.[/quote]
Do you have a fixed number/quota, or a defined level of need, in mind for how you choose?

We should help the most vulnerable refugees I.e. those who were not able to travel across Europe and are still in refugee camps in the first countries they fled to. It enables us to help more people as more can be helped in the country they are in for the same cost as helping just one in the U.K.

It also helps us to help the most vulnerable and bring some of them to the U.K. - pregnant widows, orphaned children, the elderly.

That is better than survival of the fittest boat ride and walk across Europe.

@DBML for years it's been standard to reject every asylum claim on first submission, and only accept claims after expensive appeals - that cost the UK money. Family friends fled organised crime in Russia, came to the UK and presented for asylum as soon as they landed. Best part of 3 years in limbo and fear and 5 before they could legally work, despite both parents being consultant-level doctors. They had all the evidence, he had native injuries, but the initial claim was rejected out of hand.

Do you honestly think that applying from France for asylum will get anything other than a straight rejection? Even though people aren't coming here for the glorious 35 quid a week in a bedsit if you're lucky, but to join family or friends, or because their second language is English.

Why all the focus on asylum seekers in a thread about overpopulation in the UK?

Asylum seekers make up a very small minority of immigrants. The number of people who sought asylum in the UK last year is the equivalent of 0.05% of the UK population.

And people arriving from France are a minority of asylum seekers.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01403/

@labyrinthloafer

When it comes to legal migration and support of refugees, I believe the government should work with other countries to come up with such quotas or agreements.

For legal economic migration a points system seems fair. I would expect that type of system to be applied to me if I ever wanted to move abroad.

For refugees, quotas based on current population numbers and the responsibility shared with other countries. As I believe it is.

Illegal immigration is what I think we need to discourage and the number of illegals I would allow to stay is zero if it were up to me. I think to encourage people to cross the channel in inflatables with children is irresponsible. If France was at war, I’d feel differently, but it isn’t.

@Alabamawhirly1 We don't actually know how many as the majority just disappear and work in the black economy.

How do you know this ? how do you know the majority do this if they have disappeared ?

Nobody is saying that the boats shouldn't be stopped and the people interviewed and dealt with appropriately or that people should be allowed to go around breaking laws willy nilly.

Nobody needs to seek refuge from the French Government.

How much time have you spent in one of the French refugee camps or tent cities, without access to shelter or basic sanitation, and at constant risk of violence?

Refugees who end up in France aren’t trotting down the Champs Elysee munching on a croissant, or settling in a darling little village somewhere.

@DameFanny - actually not true - 2.1 children per family is the replacement number, not 2, so given the fact an increasing number of people in the UK have no children at all, there’s plenty of scope for people to have 3 children without that actually increasing the population. With immigration, you increase the number of fertile adults in the population immediately, rather than waiting for them to grow up before they decide whether or not to reproduce, so it is far more likely to result in genuine population growth. The UK fertility rate is currently1.7, so population growth is not being driven by people born British nationals having too many children.

How on earth are refugees, some unaccompanied children, paying €4000 to cross the channel? Where is the money coming from? I agree for these people to cross the channel, they must be desperate, I wouldn’t want to do it, even on a a calm day and a lot of migrants, refugees can’t swim.

‘Asylum seekers make up a very small minority of immigrants. The number of people who sought asylum in the UK last year is the equivalent of 0.05% of the UKpopulation.’

I don’t know what figures we should be comparing this to. From what I can work out, natural increase from birth rate in the U.K. is 0.1% of the population. So where has the massive population increase come from?

Even UK has its own refugee seeking safety in Spain now...

@Alex50

How on earth are refugees, some unaccompanied children, paying €4000 to cross the channel? Where is the money coming from? I agree for these people to cross the channel, they must be desperate, I wouldn’t want to do it, even on a a calm day and a lot of migrants, refugees can’t swim.

Debt, all family, pulling money together, some kidneys...

‘How much time have you spent in one of the French refugee camps or tent cities, without access to shelter or basic sanitation, and at constant risk of violence?

Refugees who end up in France aren’t trotting down the Champs Elysee munching on a croissant, or settling in a darling little village somewhere.‘

And homeless people in the U.K. aren’t waltzing around Devon and eating cream teas, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t at huge risk of violence, illness and sleeping rough. That doesn’t mean they can go to another country and claim asylum based on the actions of the U.K. government.

Funny how there isn’t any refugees going from the UK to France, even though things are pretty shit in the UK at the moment, it must be pretty bad in France if they are willing to cross the channel in a dingy