To think, without upsetting anybody, we are massively overpopulated on this tiny Island??? What sensible non punitive solutions are there??

[PasstheBucket89]

Its pretty relevant with all the talk about migrant boats, priti patel saying she will make the passage unviable etc she has done some awful things, it makes my blood run cold tbh i doubt she cares about the safety of them in that boats. But, what di we do, and when suggestions are made its often motivated by hate not quality of life issues. And yes, the ageing massively adds to the overpopulation aswell, but what should we do? reasonably? this tiny Island is massively overpopulated, it doesn't benefit anyone to be crammed in like sardines like this, massively effects access to housing, healthcare, education etc, What should the gov do, not adding to the hostile environment??.

We’re losing a host of economically productive EU migrants as a consequence of Brexit. That should free up a bit of space.

"Why? @DameFanny i will have had 3, very spaced out, all the same dad, married, tax paying, won't be in receipt of child bills benefit, like another poster said why should native people be deprived of their human right toa family within reason, especially when the birth rate is falling"

So the country is massively overpopulated @PasstheBucket89 but you weren't worried about a net increase to population caused by you and your husband making more bodies than they'd replace?

And if the birthrate is falling, isn't that a solution to overpopulation?

Your positions don't make sense as stated. Except they do. Because you're saying that the white British birthrate falling is bad, and the BAME population increasing is bad, because you're not taking an economic or logistical view on population, but a racial one.

And the "sensible non-punitive solution" to that is you educating yourself.

Well, the governments over the last couple of decades have made changes immigration rules well over 100 times. It created the Windrush Scandal and other people losing their jobs because they can't prove decades of residency, but it hasn't actually changed the numbers very much. Honestly, other than for soundbites that they're doing something about immigration, I'm not sure any of the governments have really cared about it.

I agree that it's nonsense to lump all migrants together. The UK has had multi-tiered immigration system for ages, changing it points rather than tiers will do very little but give Johnson more talking points. People focus on those coming for work and arriving in dingies, but ignore spousal visas and how much unpaid care is being done, ignore that whatever happens now will affect some will have been here decades.

Part of the solution is better infrastructure and not building to pack us in like sardines, part of it is ensuring all women here have full reproductive control, part of it will be improving job conditions in work that needs to be done and is currently reliant on immigrant labour, and, yes, part of it will be ensuring people are aware of the reality in Britain. We're already working towards focusing more on quality of life vs just surviving in older age care and removing migrants convicted of certain crimes, but in the end, the main thing is going to be figuring out how to deal with the bulge of decreasing population without destroying quality of life further.

@treefox3513

She’s an educational psychologist and he is some sort of nurse in a specific field, but I can’t remember what. I worked with her.
They went to Australia.

How would the opposition improve the situation? Kill off all the old people or get a magic money tree to save our NHS?

Can't remember who asked pages back and pp did already gave the answer but it is this (aside: your use of the words "magic money tree" are a bit of a giveaway. After the crash of 2008 nobody was talking about magic money trees for banks, were they? and yet there must have been one)

What the UK needs is a much better system of taxation where the upper bands are altered so the seemingly infinite rich pay more.
We also need a government that will invest properly in infrastructure (transport, schools, GP services, hospitals etc) - which must be coupled with a responsibility of users of those services (especially medical) that isn't taking the piss. (we have seen that with the advent of Covid-19 the A&Es aren't full of drunks etc)

We need people to hold the government to account. Right now there is a lot of information about the UK government's cronyism. Look at the vast sums paid for PPE and what happened and who the money went to. Where is the outcry? In France they would be on the streets.

Developed nations have taken, taken, taken and used the resources of other nations to get rich and comfortable. And nobody, apparently, thinks it is the right thing to pay it back.

Why not stop encouraging people to give up smoking? People are told not to smoke because it shortens the life expectancy. Then when they live longer, they're told they're a burden and should be culled (what replaces the tax paid by many pensioners btw?). Smoking solves the problem. Billions of tax revenue, and much lower pension bill.

@DameFanny - is it actually racist to expect a country to prioritise its own citizens over the citizens of other countries?!

[quote Walkaround]@DameFanny - is it actually racist to expect a country to prioritise its own citizens over the citizens of other countries?![/quote]
It is sometimes racist and sometimes not.

I think the real question is whether it is inhumane and how far to take it.

Could you personally watch someone drown rather than help them to shore if you could? Where would you send them if you didn't allow them to stay in your country? Would you feel ok to send them to a country where they had reasonable expectation of torture, imprisonment or murder by the state?

I have met some people whose stories took my breath away.

I don't know what the answer is, globally, but I am afraid of losing my humanity.

I live in an under populated part of the country. The reason it is under populated is that there are no jobs to speak of. Just teaching/ hospital/ police - some shop jobs, solicitors etc - to cater for the resident population.
The low population means there is not great demand for unis or colleges. Transport is bad.
So why would anyone move here - the jobs mentioned above are hard to get. Just dumping people somewhere doesn't work. They'll gradually, or their children will gradually, gravitate to the areas with jobs.

The answer to migration is reducing the population.
Trump stopped the US subsidised contraception service to parts of Africa to appease the Catholic lobby.
It's hopeless really when you are up against religions that promote many children.

Just advertise what UK is really like now🤷🏻 problem sorted

Covids at work killing off all the weak and old so the jobs being done

"is it actually racist to expect a country to prioritise its own citizens over the citizens of other countries?!"

You're not asking the country to prioritise its own citizens though, are you @Walkaround? Either the country is already massively overpopulated and we should be bringing down the birthrate, or it's not. To say that it's massively overpopulated but if you're born here you get to have as many children as you want is rank hypocrisy. And that sort of hypocrisy is frequently racially motivated.

BTW I'm not saying the country is massively overpopulated.

@labyrinthloafer - thank you for making my point. Being inhumane and being racist are not one and the same thing... Nor is prioritising your own citizens invariably inhumane.

We are going to be seeing a massive migration from South to North in the coming years though, as the climate crisis digs in and makes more areas uninhabitable. Pushing our governments (and corporations) to push much faster towards carbon zero would be an actually effective way of reducing migration in the long term.

I don't think you understood labyrinth's post if you think she made your point

@DaneFanny - Reducing the birth rate solves no problems unless you also “euthanase” the elderly. That’s why we are stuck in the situation of accepting overpopulation. It doesn’t remove the fact we are overpopulated and the entire world is heading for a humanitarian disaster regardless.

@DameFanny - I think you just failed to understand the point, tbh.

Reducing the birthrate reduces the overall number of people. Are you mathematically illiterate as well?

[quote Walkaround]@labyrinthloafer - thank you for making my point. Being inhumane and being racist are not one and the same thing... Nor is prioritising your own citizens invariably inhumane.[/quote]
I think not helping refugees is inhumane.

I think you missed my point, my family isnt 'large' by any stretch of the imagination, i would understand if it was, like another poster said a country prioritising its own citizens isnt racist, i think conments and ideas about making the passage unviable is more scary. Why am i not entitled to my human right to have a family? so that many other people can express theirs, thats a punitive small minded view. i personally think a system like Australias would be better.

Your family may not be large, but the number of children still represents a 50% increase on the number of parents involved.

So are we massively overpopulated or not?

You could make it a condition of receiving a state pension that you supported a couple of elderly people to live at home. So cleaned shopped etc , I'm not talking about physical care and nursing, it doesn't have to be young people earning or caring.

@labyrinthloafer - I agree. It isn’t necessarily racist, though, as per @DameFanny ‘’s argument.

@DameFanny - surely you realise only death reduces population size?! And you accuse me of being mathematically illiterate?!

Should have made it clearer - cared for very elderly whilst you were fit enough.