To think shop workers shouldn't be asking people why they aren't wearing a mask?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

My friend is epileptic. She can't wear a mask because it takes very little to trigger a fit, and wearing a mask creates too much of a risk. Over the last 2 days she's been asked in 3 different places (Greggs, Morrison's and the Co-Op) in an abrupt and snotty way "Where is your mask?" By staff. This is with lots of other customers around. She responded "I'm medically exempt" and has been asked why she's exempt in two of those places. She's also been told (online) that she should stay in to protect others and get someone else to do her shopping etc.

AIBU to think this is appalling ableist behaviour to put someone on the spot in front of others? She doesn't owe anyone her medical history. Yes there's sunflower lanyards she can pick up but she's apprehensive about wearing anything around her neck for obvious reasons. Why can't we just trust others that they're doing it in their best interests?

@incognitomum

hearhoovesthinkzebras you ok love? Feel there's a lot of suppressed anger in there?

Yes, I'm angry that so many people are choosing not to wear masks (won't not can't) and there is nothing that anyone will do about it.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras so what is your solution to these competing rights?

Is there really anyone left on MN who doesn't know what Hears thinks?

@Branleuse

one minute we are talking about invisible disabilities. Traumatic event survivors and people with illnesses that wouldnt normally make them exempt and now mixing it in with severe disabilities. Fact is, our rules on mask wearing are actually pretty lenient and people are still complaining about it.

Its not about you. Its about halting this bloody pandemic so we dont end up in another lockdown and schools can reopen.

@Branleuse

It’s laughable you call it “complaining”. I call it advocating for the needs of others. I wear a mask and my family wear masks. I can empathise with the needs of others even if it doesn’t directly affect me. It’s not about you either!

@puzzledpiece

Shop workers are not supposed to be challenging people on wearing masks. It's in the guidelines that nobody not wearing a mask should be challenged. It's not hard to understand. And it's none of their business.

And if you read the whole thread you will see that the sunflower shit goes unheeded. So what's your solution?

It does directly effect others though. If people who not legitimately exempt are not wearing masks and wearing them properly i.e not fiddling with them constantly and then going about pawing at everything with germy hands, it effects everyone because the infection rate will go back up and we'll all spend Christmas in lockdown.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

If I was being routinely asked personal questions with no support from my manager, was unable to figure out a way to answer without being rude, and was clearly deeply upset about the whole thing, I'd probably try to find another job. That sounds like a dreadful situation. Hopefully it improves for you.

Shops can refuse entry to people who do not wear masks to

@Vivana

Shops can refuse entry to people who do not wear masks to

Not if they are legitimately exempt.

No one should be asked a personal questions but the guidelines state they can be challenged or refused entry. Most shops have opted not to ask.

@IAmFleshIAmBone Click and collect.

Personally as a nurse of 20 years experience I seriously doubt an epileptic seizure can be triggered by a face mask. Can she never put a scarf round her face in winter? Wear lipstick because it's touching her lips. Fair enough if it provokes a panic attack, but people are just refusing to wear masks.

I have a shielded child so I've no patience with the 'I won't wear a mask'brigade.

[quote countrygirl99]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras so what is your solution to these competing rights?[/quote]
I've already said - government need to produce some sort of proof of exemption so that non exempt chancers can be identified. Failing that, the only other way is to provide mask wearing and non mask wearing services.

Laiste

Because I don't hide behind multiple name changes

But unless shop workers can ask that question how are they going to know?

None of this is being done for fun, but to keep people safe and manage a global pandemic.

The virus really doesn't care about our feelings at all it will just do its thing where it can.

Shops can refuse anyone for any reason, but if they refuse someone on the grounds of not wearing a mask when that person is exempt then that is discrimination

I wish people would understand the difficulty of being in retail.

You know this thread, the one about Eat out to help out, the one about the lady sacked from Birds the bakers and the allergies one has really brought into focus for me how anyone in a service type job is held in such low regard by society in general.
They are ridiculed, abused, belittled and condescended to on a daily basis. Expected to put their jobs at risk by breaking company policies or break the law even for customer satisfaction, and accused of being stupid and not using common sense if they don't.
Expected to police other people's behaviour with zero back up or cooperation from anyone.
Are expected to never make a mistake and be 100% professional 100% of the time.
And yet are not paid professionally, certainly are not treated as professionals either.
They take the blame for laws, company policies and now government guidelines from customers and are held responsible for customers not sticking to the laws, policies or guidelines.
And should they not engage in 'banter' or have to tell a customer no, they run the very real risk of being reported for being rude, whether they were or not. And the customer, well they'll likely get an apology and something free regardless of the actual facts.
I see people saying customer service has gone downhill, I actually think it's much better in general than it used to be, customer expectations are at times ridiculous, and customer behaviour has declined dramatically, especially when they can't get what they want.
Being customer facing these days is draining, at times frightening and truly does affect people's mental health.
And all for minimum wage that you can't live on and jobs with no security or benefits at all.
It's like service staff are some sort of sub human that don't need to be treated with a basic level of humanity.

21:38lakesidesummer

But unless shop workers can ask that question how are they going to know?

None of this is being done for fun, but to keep people safe and manage a global pandemic.

The virus really doesn't care about our feelings at all it will just do its thing where it can.

This ^

[quote IAmFleshIAmBone]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

If I was being routinely asked personal questions with no support from my manager, was unable to figure out a way to answer without being rude, and was clearly deeply upset about the whole thing, I'd probably try to find another job. That sounds like a dreadful situation. Hopefully it improves for you. [/quote]
Sadly it's not that easy when you have chronic illness and disability. If I leave my current job I have no protection for two years in a new job. That's a huge concern if you need to approach a new employer with a list of reasonable adjustments.

@IAmFleshIAmBone

Shops can refuse anyone for any reason, but if they refuse someone on the grounds of not wearing a mask when that person is exempt then that is discrimination

On gov.uk it clearly says that shops can refuse entry. It's an utterly ridiculous law though. Government have pushed responsibility for policing it onto shops and then turned round and said "make sure only those with legitimate exemptions don't wear masks, oh, but you aren't allowed to ask anyone".

Shops can refuse entry if you aren’t wearing a mask and don’t have a legitimate reason not to.

It goes back to what I said. Either you’re not wearing a mask because you’re exempt or you’re a dickhead.

What’s the point of a shop even asking? An exempt person will say their exempt (and might be upset) and a dickhead is going to either lie or say no whatcha gonna do about it. And what is the shop going to do?

If the woman had asked me nicely and had been pleasant. No problem. I don’t even have a Massive problem with an official letter of proof. But that doesn’t exist. My gp isn’t doing letters.

Or perhaps people have forgotten, or think they don't have to bother because it isn't being taken seriously?
It takes a while to change human behavior and often some prompts.
No one should be treated rudely or aggressively but if the U.K. is serious about wanting to prevent a second wave basic precautions should be standard practice.

@lakesidesummer

Or perhaps people have forgotten, or think they don't have to bother because it isn't being taken seriously? It takes a while to change human behavior and often some prompts. No one should be treated rudely or aggressively but if the U.K. is serious about wanting to prevent a second wave basic precautions should be standard practice.

exactly, I forgot a couple of times at first, and was reminded by shop staff. Quite rightly.

I’ve been to Iceland and co op, lots of people not wearing masks and no one has said anything.

They can't refuse you if you are exempt, on the grounds of not wearing a mask. You also don't need to prove your exemption. So they can't really do anything.

Why is it often the people with the 'years of experience' in a medical setting who have the least empathy? I shouldn't be surprised, given the amount of appalling treatment I have personally received from nursing staff over the years. Some have been lovely but mostly very unkind. It baffles me.

I see mask wearing as similar to herd immunity achieved through vaccines.

I wear my mask because for me it's easy and offers others (some of whom like the OP's friend can't wear their own) some protection.

Much like lockdown, people have forgotten that it's about societal risk and not individual.

It's all me, me, me and I'm so fucking sick of it. There seems to be a real undercurrent of arrogance brought out by coronavirus. The notion that individuals and their families are the only people capable of following the rules. When in reality the vast majority are doing their bit. You don't know someone else's circumstances, by making assumptions and stewing over their perceived rule break, you're just contributing to making the UK a more divisive, unpleasant place and using valuable headspace.

It's no one else's business why another shopper isn't wearing a mask. Just worry about yourself and do your bit.

I hate the idea that as some of us are able to enjoy more freedom, those of us who are disabled and perhaps already more restricted are being made to feel scared to do the same. How did we get here?

@Nomore79 thank you.

I feel seen.