To think shop workers shouldn't be asking people why they aren't wearing a mask?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

My friend is epileptic. She can't wear a mask because it takes very little to trigger a fit, and wearing a mask creates too much of a risk. Over the last 2 days she's been asked in 3 different places (Greggs, Morrison's and the Co-Op) in an abrupt and snotty way "Where is your mask?" By staff. This is with lots of other customers around. She responded "I'm medically exempt" and has been asked why she's exempt in two of those places. She's also been told (online) that she should stay in to protect others and get someone else to do her shopping etc.

AIBU to think this is appalling ableist behaviour to put someone on the spot in front of others? She doesn't owe anyone her medical history. Yes there's sunflower lanyards she can pick up but she's apprehensive about wearing anything around her neck for obvious reasons. Why can't we just trust others that they're doing it in their best interests?

I agree with a PP. It's all well and good wanting doctors to issue exemption passes, but what about people who are exempt because of past trauma they've never told anyone about? Should they be forced to disclose to a doctor when they are neither ready nor willing just so they're not forced into masking up?

The purpose of asking is not to try to catch people out or part of some great conspiracy to target the disabled, and absolutely medical reasons should be taken at the person's word. A few people might abuse it- fine, we can't stop this. It's important people don't have to publish their medical history in the street. But I am not asking this.

Asking about a mask just to remind the majority of people who have made an honest mistake to wear them: 'oh yes- sorry it's in my pocket' or 'oh woops I left it in the car I'll pop back and get it' or 'no I'm medically exempt' all acceptable answers.

I don't believe simply saying 'I'm medically exempt' is traumatising for the vast majority of people who are medically exempt.

I risk my life and my family's life daily as a doctor and so do people working in shops. We are important too. It's reasonable to have a quick and polite 'do you have a mask?' to keep us all as safe as possible.

The sunflower doesn’t have to be a lanyard!!!!

It also has a badge that says in BIG letters. Medically exempt

I wouldn't be surprised if some people did think that was a good idea @MrsSnitchnose - like the 'rape clause' for women needing to claim benefits for a third child that was 'born as a result of non-consensual conception'. Lots of people thought that was reasonable.

"It's reasonable to have a quick and polite 'do you have a mask?' to keep us all as safe as possible."

It is better to ask "are you exempt" so that all that is required is yes.

As someone who is exempt on 2 different grounds - it's fucking shit being constantly questioned. I feel for your friend OP. I think it's ridiculous that the gov haven't provided something for those of us who are genuinely exempt (though I know it's expensive/time consuming/difficult) because as OP pointed out anybody could print one of the online exemption cards or buy a sunflower lanyard just because they don't want to wear a mask - this is the reason we, the people with genuine problems, are vilified and treated as though we are being dramatic. These are not really solutions, despite being trotted out on every thread about this, even if I have one they could choose not to believe me given that any abled person could also have one, so I don't have one. It's not against the law and every single person in the world doesn't have the right to know any details about my disability or medical history. People need to mind their own business and know that they are doing the right thing. I have said this on another thread, I would rather a few people got away without wearing a mask than disabled people be made to feel uncomfortable and even like they should hide away at home in shame. Most of the countries which do not allow for exemption do not particularly have a good history in terms of human rights and disability discrimination so mentioning them is not really the gotcha! moment you seem to think it is.

@LangClegsInSpace I must have missed that little gem. I'm probably less surprised than I should be

@LangClegsInSpace Many people have become utterly, irrationally fixated on cloth face coverings as if they are the One True Thing that is going to solve this and keep us all safe. They're not.
Thank you for your sensible insight. Anyone would think masks were the ultimate cure for Covid, given the vitriolic frothing about them. Boris's strategy of "keep the public utterly terrified, confused and angry over Easter eggs, clapping, park benches and masks" is working a treat.

@DomDoesWotHeWants if wearing a mask really is damaging to your health more fool you. If it isn't , you are the patronising one. There are plenty of ways to die or suffer long term damage that aren't Covid. That's your choice. And I'm not bothered by people trying to protect others. I am bothered by people acting like stasi and making other people's lives miserable. If you want to be that person noone can't stop you but it doesn't make you the saint you seem to think.

@MummytoCSJH

As someone who is exempt on 2 different grounds - it's fucking shit being constantly questioned. I feel for your friend OP. I think it's ridiculous that the gov haven't provided something for those of us who are genuinely exempt (though I know it's expensive/time consuming/difficult) because as OP pointed out anybody could print one of the online exemption cards or buy a sunflower lanyard just because they don't want to wear a mask - this is the reason we, the people with genuine problems, are vilified and treated as though we are being dramatic. These are not really solutions, despite being trotted out on every thread about this, even if I have one they could choose not to believe me given that any abled person could also have one, so I don't have one. It's not against the law and every single person in the world doesn't have the right to know any details about my disability or medical history. People need to mind their own business and know that they are doing the right thing. I have said this on another thread, I would rather a few people got away without wearing a mask than disabled people be made to feel uncomfortable and even like they should hide away at home in shame. Most of the countries which do not allow for exemption do not particularly have a good history in terms of human rights and disability discrimination so mentioning them is not really the gotcha! moment you seem to think it is.

We are all questioned though. Why are you taking it SO personal?

In a work place you are expected to wear a badge to show who you are you are unable to gain access to certain places... this is for good reason you could be anybody. The masks are for a reason too. Nobody is singling you out here.

@LaBelleSauvage

The purpose of asking is not to try to catch people out or part of some great conspiracy to target the disabled, and absolutely medical reasons should be taken at the person's word. A few people might abuse it- fine, we can't stop this. It's important people don't have to publish their medical history in the street. But I am not asking this.

Asking about a mask just to remind the majority of people who have made an honest mistake to wear them: 'oh yes- sorry it's in my pocket' or 'oh woops I left it in the car I'll pop back and get it' or 'no I'm medically exempt' all acceptable answers.

I don't believe simply saying 'I'm medically exempt' is traumatising for the vast majority of people who are medically exempt.

I risk my life and my family's life daily as a doctor and so do people working in shops. We are important too. It's reasonable to have a quick and polite 'do you have a mask?' to keep us all as safe as possible.

I agree, except that some people are exempt for reasons that are not medical, so 'I'm exempt' should be sufficient.

But this only needs to happen once, on the way in.

Some posters here think that people should expect to be constantly challenged if they don't wear a lanyard or wear a badge, or just not allowed in unless they wear a lanyard, or just not allowed in without a mask full stop.

And there are numerous examples on this thread and others where it was not enough for someone to be wearing a lanyard or to simply state that they are exempt. OP says her friend was twice asked why she was medically exempt when this is not the shop staff's business and they are not qualified to interpret her medical history anyway.

I don't think shop workers should ask, but not for the same reason. Why should they risk getting a load of abuse trying to police people not wearing masks? They're not paid enough to deal with that shit IMO.

@countrygirl99

I am bothered by people acting like stasi and making other people's lives miserable. If you want to be that person noone can't stop you but it doesn't make you the saint you seem to think.

But I'm not that person. I haven't said anything that could lead you to believe I would be. Why make things up? I posted sympathetically to the OP in the first instance. I have never challenged anyone for not wearing a mask, I wouldn't. Why pretend I said that? I think you owe me an apology.

I just pointed out what I did, I wear a mask for short periods. I haven't claimed sainthood, yet you seem determined to be unpleasant.

Really not sure why.

OP's friend doesn't have to spend money on lanyards, badges or stickers. Nor does she have to waste time printing off cards. The fact that she is not wearing a mask should be enough to make people realise that she has a hidden disability. Just because some CF are refusing to wear masks must not mean that people who are exempt should face an inquisition when they just want to do thier shopping.

In a work place you are expected to wear a badge to show who you are you are unable to gain access to certain places... this is for good reason you could be anybody. The masks are for a reason too. Nobody is singling you out here

But people aren't going to work in someplace that needs security clearance. They are going about thier business getting shopping. They shouldn't have to proclaim to the world and his wife that they have a disability.

As I said before the rules state nobody has to wear anything nor answer any questions and nobody has a right to question anyone else. Considering the mass hysteria on here about "THE RULES" surely that's not hard to grasp?

@GlummyMcGlummerson

For those against badges, do you also think we should do away with disabled parking badges and just trust that only disabled people will park there?

You are comparing apples with oranges.

Blue badges allow disabled people to park with space and convenience and stop them getting ticketed. Blue badges allow parking on yellow lines, which non-disabled people can't do, to make life easier for disabled people.

A simple transaction in a shop as a customer is not something that is there to make life easier for disabled people. Everyone should have equal access to doing this no matter their disability status, and challenging them on even being there is being discriminatory. Blue badges are not discriminatory. It's a fundamental right of a shopper (provided they're not being abusive or disruptive) to be able to go into a shop and buy something without experiencing discrimination.

its the same thing, its showing you are entitled to do something different that makes your life a bit easier

@BrightYellowDaffodil

Liable for what?

Breaching the law regarding disability discrimination.

But then there will be staff working in shops who have illnesses that are protected under the Equality Act that are facing either leaving their job or having their health put at risk.

The number of people either not wearing a mask, or wearing it incorrectly either under their nose, their chin or dangling from one ear is ridiculous. And no they can't all have legitimate reasons for doing so.

The rule as it stands is pointless. No one is enforcing it so it's basically just voluntary.

It's definitely awkward..
I find it I wear a mask too much over the course of a day, so if I'm only going to be in one shop for 5 mins one day a mask is fine, however once I've done 1 hr plus I get all fainty.

I saw a shop assistant I see regularly the other day and ended up giving her a full blow by blow of different things that make me Faint (basically loads) but I was feel I g awkward so did it in a jolly voice. She either thought I was lying or rather odd....

its the same thing, its showing you are entitled to do something different that makes your life a bit easier
But it doesn't make it easier there are plenty of people still being asked why they are exempt more than once by self proclaimed mask stazi.
A blue badge parking space is different because unless you are following the person round the shops you don't know who uses it.

Having to advertise your "difference" is just a small step on the road to making it 'normal' in future. Having seen some posts on here lately there is nothing some people would like more.

@LangClegsInSpace I agree that saying I'm exempt should be fine. Whatever wording the person chooses to say they are exempt should be fine.

I'm just addressing the initial AIBU title which was that people shouldn't be asked.

The fact that some shop assistants have challenged further for specifics is a training issue and should be dealt with appropriately by management in the shop.

What I am saying is that a polite question is fine, and the answer should be taken at face value. I am not condoning any nastiness, I am not for manditory badges or compulsory specifics. I am JUST for the basic principle of politely asking a non mask wearer about a mask. If people would rather not be asked as much, they are free to wear a badge or sticker to avoid this happening as much, and that is their choice.

But a blanket ban in asking about masks endangers us all.

@QueenofmyPrinces

Well when you said "he" I assumed you were talking about the man who's been the subject of the last few posts. My friend is a woman. Funnily enough I didn't ask her to give me a breakdown of exactly why something triggers her fits. I trust that she knows her condition and it's triggers, and didn't require further explanation. Do your own research if you want to k ow the answer

Sorry, I must have missed the letter ‘s’.

I was only curious because I have epilepsy and I didn’t know if I was unaware of something regarding masks triggering seizures and so as a group we are exempt from wearing masks.

It probably depends on an individual's triggers and/or how they manage in a mask. Stress, getting hot etc.

There was one poster on another thread who's DH has epilepsy and the risk for him was that if he was to have a fit he could inhale the mask, so it seemed more that the actual mask wasn't the issue with a fit being induced but the consequences if he did have one.

So with epilepsy it would possibly more about "is there likely to be a need to have the mask taken off?" If the answer is yes, and they couldn't do it themselves then they are exempt.

(I hope that makes sense)

YABU - she should wear the lanyard / have the badge for show

Everyone is on edge with this pandemic and how much it screwed most of us up. Wear that bloody badge! 😡

I think there is another post asking why shop assistants AREN'T challenging non-mask wearers. They just can't win can they.

[quote myhumps123]@GlummyMcGlummerson OP you are making a lot of sense but you made a mistake coming on mumsnet because mumsnet is known for being transphobic, racist and now from what I read, ableism. Mumsnet is only good if you want practical advice for getting out of an abusive relationship, but for anything else it's pretty shit[/quote]
Mumsnet has been ableist throughout Covid, indeed continues to be unless it relates to customers not wearing masks, then it's all about disability discrimination. That obviously doesn't matter when it comes to people with disabilities who are vulnerable to Covid - then the mass choirs of MN are happy to say we should just have to stay at home, or that children should have to be kept away from school so that other children aren't missing their education. Funny how disability discrimination doesn't matter then huh?

No shop assistants cannot win and the way people are going on and on and on about them is ridiculous. Even those put out health at risk and worked all the way through it getting abuse etc and now this post. Last week was about should shop workers wear masks. Then i seen posts about shop workers telling customers where to queue etc.
If it was not for us shop workers people would of had no food. Time to respect shop workers and not keep loaning and moaning about them. It's a hard job day in day out.