I'm a landlady....

[SomeOtherGirl]

I'm going to try to word this carefully. It's to do with making different life choices but it's in a sensitive area which could imply that I'm being judgemental. I don't mean to be. I'm just wondering if this sounds normal to the ears of anonymous mumsnetters.

So we have a rental property - our old place. I will try to give as much info as possible though some probably isn't totally relevant, but people might ask otherwise :-)

A nice couple moved in and they have a baby.

The deposit was covered by the council, and the monthly rent is £600, which was to be paid by them. They are on UC - they had asked me if I minded and I answered of course not!

I am 75% sure that the guy has a job of some description as he talks about it on Facebook.

They moved in and after the first month immediately fell into arrears, with a late partial payment and then a missed payment. They are a little more than a month behind on rent.

I did some research and found that the UC people can pay us about 90% of the rent directly to us, which sounded easier for everyone so I applied for that and all has been well, aside from the outstanding rent.

We asked the tenants if they can catch up this money and they said they'd have to do so in drive and drabs. This was last autumn. They have yet to make a payment but with Christmas and then corona virus I didn't push it. UC said we could apply to have it taken out from their other benefits in small chunks but I think the debt needs to equate to two months for this.

So now there are some bits and bobs to do maintenance wise so we've been looking at that and working out how to sort them out.

In the conversation, we asked if they'd be able now to start repaying the arrears as it would help with sorting out the maintenance bits. They said they could only do £10 a month as they have to pay for other stuff - namely Sky which they have at £90 a month.

I was really surprised at this. We rely on this rent as an income. I'm not able to work at present and we live modestly. I know people tend to think of their landlord as being Mr megabucks but it's not like that with us. We have netflix at 5.99 a month and thats the extent of our entertainment luxuries.

I'm just surprised that a lovely couple who get their housing costs covered plus additional benefits - and a job - see repaying this rent debt as so low priority.

Am I a bit mad? Should I sell the place?
I've not got cross with them or anything about it by the way. But I am wondering if I should sell it. They wanted me to come change a lightbulb recently. I think they've also moved an older step child in, which is fine I guess But they didn't mention it.

I try to be a really considerate landlady as far as I can but it's never going to be a perfect situation.

Just wondering what your thoughts are ? Obviously not planning on evicting them over this.

Have you ever watched Nightmare Tenants, Slum Landlords?
It'll open your eyes to what some landlords have to go through to evict non-paying tenants. Act now or you could be in for a massive headache at huge expense. Can you contact the council again and be very clear with them about what's going on?

You sound too nice, not being funny but you have to be a bit firm or they will take the mick, tell to pay up or you will have to give them notice to leave.

@Alwaysinpain This is incorrect. The tenancy ends every month, you do not have to renew it. You do not need an excuse. It is entirely your choice.

I didn't mention needing an "excuse". You are incorred. A periodic tenancy only ends when the tenant or landlord ends it. You do not have to renew it, but you do have to end it.

So, as a LL you still have to issue notice if you want to bring a periodic tenancy to an end.

@BakedCam

*She needs to be thankful because she has worked hard to buy a property that she is able to rent out ? Maybe some of your clients should have done the same thing ? Maybe these people should have done the same thing ?

Making money off the state ? She is getting ( or rather trying to get ) legal rent . Are you going to say the same thing about supermarkets where your clients or others on benefits spend their benefits ? They are making money off the state ?

FFS really !*

Agree, Stuffed Penguin. Very surprising a devt advisor has this opinion, when they know that rent/mortgage is the first outgoing on any expenditure listing. One would like to hope a debt advisor would remain impartial.

Why is it that LL are viewed as money making greedy bastards when the business model is the same as housing associations? The majority of HAs have tenants that are on UC/housing benefit also. Some of the properties they rent out have concrete floors, absolutely nothing in. The private rental sector offers a much needed housing service and LL often get the raw end of the stick. Tenants can live many months rent free, build up huge arrears and in some cases, it can take wwll over a year to get them out. Local authority housing teams, tell tenants as part of their advice, to stay in the property until the court order is stamped and the bailiffs turn up.

My DBIL had been a LL for 20 years, he has had varying types of tenants, from the ones that mess around with payments, not always people on UC either, to struggling tenants who are terrified to ask for help.

I refer you to rule number 1 of my original post. Mortgage/rent is always the first priority.

The tenants may well have other debts and they might not understand budgeting and dealing with debt. There's no financial education for young people and if you grow up in a situation where your parents don't teach you these things - or don't know about them themselves - it's easy to get in a mess with debts.

I agree that rental properties should be state owned. Why should other people make a profit from a basic human need? And before you compare supermarkets, it's not the same thing, and the desperate need for food banks that has risen up in the past 10 years under the austerity Conservative govt proves that there is something wrong with the way our economy is being run.

If you are on Facebook I’d recommend you join the UK Landlords Forum as you will be able to glean loads of useful info on there. Moving forward I don’t know about the arrears but I believe there is a form that you can complete to get their benefits paid directly to you so as to avoid any arrears issues in future (I don’t think tenants have to agree to this you can do directly). Worth joining the NRLA as well for bespoke advice.

It sounds like it is YOU who needs to read up on the current legislation.

It has been the case now, that once a tenancy is up, a LL can go straight to the high court and instruct High Court Sheriffs to manually remove tenants who refuse to go, for the princely sum of £60. They will be removed that day

I look forward to you posting a link to any legislation showing that a LL can evict a tenant in one day without serving notice

I'll not hold my breath waiting for it though...

Rent should be there priority .They are taking the miles .We have Sky and it does not cost £90 a month It sounds like he is playing the benefit system too talk to the DHSS

I'm deliberately not reading responses as I can't deal with any digs at tenants and the damage we all wreak behind us. (A common theme on these type of threads) In your situation I would sell. No more stress around rent, payments, property maintenance etc. Easier all round.

I would say to them they have to set up DD for a certain amount per month. Give them a time they have to pay by. If they don't, you may have to give them notice. In future, I would only rent to professional.

@Alwaysinpain

It has been the case now, that once a tenancy is up, a LL can go straight to the high court and instruct High Court Sheriffs to manually remove tenants who refuse to go, for the princely sum of £60. They will be removed that day

Are you in Scotland? Because this certainly isn't the law in England and Wales.

I think you have been very considerate and kind but it’s now time to nip it in the bud and draw a line. Simply tell them that as you don’t think they will pay the arrears despite the many requests, you are only left with one of two options. 1. To start eviction process but you’d rather not do that. Or 2. Recover through the council UC process. And that you will commence no. 2 at the end of the month (giving them a further 1 month to settle). Keep it light and sweet as you have done all this time and simply say I am not in position to subsidise as I rely on the income for my bills also. Hence am starting to get behind as well and really need the money.
If they are reasonable, they will step up. If they get shirty, then look at eviction as they really may not be good tenants and have history for this. It’s good for them to settle as well really if they want good references for future rentals. Rentals are a two way process and you have been more than generous up to now.

These are the type of tenants that make it so difficult for lots us who are renting and have to rely on UC! I’m unable to work due to ill health but I ALWAYS pay my rent on time as it’s the most important bill we have! I keep a beautifully clean and tidy home but people like this really make it tough for those of us in a similar situation.

Oh! I have Sky too but the basic package x

Just to add, I’m also a landlady and would never rent to anyone on UC because of this sort of thing. So have never had this problem with professionals. But last tenants did ask me to come change a light bulb! I did it when they went away as well as a few other jobs but some people clearly are not very domesticated! I told them I wouldn’t do it again though and they need to maintain the place themselves.

I'm a tenant and I'd give them notice once the fixed term was up.
If you can afford to, because it's likely they would stay put and you'd have to pay for court action to get them out. Do you have landlords insurance to cover that?

The majority of UC claiming tenants are working, punctual rent payers and very decent people to tar them all with the same narrow, warped brush is horrific.

Why are landlords hated on here? Get a life people!! #jealousorwhatiswrongwithyou
Anyway why sell??? Get decent tenants!!! Been a landlord (shoot me now..!) for 14 years and never had a problem and that’s in London.

Did you let it through an agent? Speak to them. If they ran credit checks and references then they may have some authority or you may have some rights to recoup leering agent fees for getting you a bad tenant.
Get landlords insurance in case this escalated and you need to make a claim. Evictions can be time consuming and financially draining.
Get some legal advice and perhaps speak to the council, citizens advice or Shelter to find out the best way to handle it without a traumatic eviction process. You can inform in writing them that their rent arrears would come out of their deposit but they would need to make up any shortfall. If they have a child and they aren’t paying their rent, that could be a matter for social services to get involved because they are putting their housing at risk. Not a nice situation for anyone to be in.

Different people have different priorities. I have a friend always mega short of money, but they have 4 big cars. Only the hubby and wife drive, their children too young. Have to buy their children (teenagers) the latest kit, and then give them as a ‘special’ gift a week before Christmas, so spend more on another Xmas gift.....but that’s a whole new topic! I don’t think they are in debt, but certainly spend to the absolute max on (what I would consider) frivolous bits and pieces of tat.

Contact Landlord Action:

www.landlordaction.co.uk/eviction/residential-eviction/

And start the ball rolling on getting them to leave / evicting then.

This will not get better and the arrears will only get worse.

I’ve been in the same position, one month arrears never paid back, then another month short, then another...... when they got into 2 months of arrears (they were paying £800 pcm) I asked them to leave and they refused and also refused to pay any of the arrears. I started the eviction process. It took 6 months to evict them and by the time they left it cost me £12k in lost rent, solicitor & bailiff fees.

Don’t be be.

I had an ex-boyfriend who came from a rich family. He had a Personal Trainer he saw a few times a week, full gym membership on top, full Sky package, he was always treating himself to expensive Jack Wills-level branded clothes, antique furniture, and really expensive meals out. He's self-employed (as I am), and he would never ever pay his tax on time due to being "skint". As a working class, musch poorer-than-him-but-tax paying leftie it boiled my piss as putting money towards the NHS trumps his flash crap. Definitely a cheeky/entitled thing from your tennants. If Sky trumps rent they have their priorities way off...

This is obvious. Issue a section 21. If they don’t vacate start eviction process. Deduct outstanding rent from deposit.

Get yourself new tenants and move on.

They don’t think it’s a priority for you. You e not required them too. During Covid a tenant couldn’t pay. We asked if they could instead not pay utilities etc as we couldn’t take the financial loss. It’s a crucial part of our family income. Take it from the deposit - it’s justifiable. Don’t let one set of tenants put you off renting. That property will give your some financial security if you can hold onto it.

Don’t think it’s worth evicting them over. That’s expensive and stressful and currently not a possibility. It’s a small amount of money. Don’t sweat it. Different values.

Why are landlords hated on here?

Because there are an awful lot of bad landlords. There are bad tenants too, but I'd predict that a much higher percentage of rental properties have a bad landlord than have a bad tenant.