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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

I'm a landlady....

352 replies

SomeOtherGirl · 03/08/2020 17:32

I'm going to try to word this carefully. It's to do with making different life choices but it's in a sensitive area which could imply that I'm being judgemental. I don't mean to be. I'm just wondering if this sounds normal to the ears of anonymous mumsnetters.

So we have a rental property - our old place. I will try to give as much info as possible though some probably isn't totally relevant, but people might ask otherwise :-)

A nice couple moved in and they have a baby.

The deposit was covered by the council, and the monthly rent is £600, which was to be paid by them. They are on UC - they had asked me if I minded and I answered of course not!

I am 75% sure that the guy has a job of some description as he talks about it on Facebook.

They moved in and after the first month immediately fell into arrears, with a late partial payment and then a missed payment. They are a little more than a month behind on rent.

I did some research and found that the UC people can pay us about 90% of the rent directly to us, which sounded easier for everyone so I applied for that and all has been well, aside from the outstanding rent.

We asked the tenants if they can catch up this money and they said they'd have to do so in drive and drabs. This was last autumn. They have yet to make a payment but with Christmas and then corona virus I didn't push it. UC said we could apply to have it taken out from their other benefits in small chunks but I think the debt needs to equate to two months for this.

So now there are some bits and bobs to do maintenance wise so we've been looking at that and working out how to sort them out.

In the conversation, we asked if they'd be able now to start repaying the arrears as it would help with sorting out the maintenance bits. They said they could only do £10 a month as they have to pay for other stuff - namely Sky which they have at £90 a month.

I was really surprised at this. We rely on this rent as an income. I'm not able to work at present and we live modestly. I know people tend to think of their landlord as being Mr megabucks but it's not like that with us. We have netflix at 5.99 a month and thats the extent of our entertainment luxuries.

I'm just surprised that a lovely couple who get their housing costs covered plus additional benefits - and a job - see repaying this rent debt as so low priority.

Am I a bit mad? Should I sell the place?
I've not got cross with them or anything about it by the way. But I am wondering if I should sell it. They wanted me to come change a lightbulb recently. I think they've also moved an older step child in, which is fine I guess But they didn't mention it.

I try to be a really considerate landlady as far as I can but it's never going to be a perfect situation.

Just wondering what your thoughts are ? Obviously not planning on evicting them over this.

OP posts:

BakedCam · 04/08/2020 11:39

I must admit, the Sky package is outrageous. I know nothing about Sky packages. I have an EE package of £33.50 pm for landline and broadband and I use free view. Then likely, costs for mobiles on top.

However, I think without that information, it would be a different situation and plain old rent arrears.

Alwaysinpain · 04/08/2020 11:40

My God. I've been privately renting for 20 years and never been a penny behind on rent. Always been at least one month ahead.

Apply to UC to have it taken out of their benefits

Eeeeeeeok · 04/08/2020 11:41

@drspouse I didn't say I was better. Says more about you that you would infer this. You seem very angry about this are you ok? You can ethically object to something without having the skills, knowledge and expertise to have fully thought out solutions.
However just off the top of my head, good quality social housing available to all. Other countries can manage this. Just as an example Vienna as the capital of Austria manages this well. See details below.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/12/vienna-housing-policy-uk-rent-controls

Once again why are you so invested in defending profit from owning property and being a landlord? As I say for me my views are base on what is good for society. What are yours about?

Alwaysinpain · 04/08/2020 11:46

Oh and I receive UC for disabilities. Never a penny of rent arrears and no Sky box in my house! 👍🏻

Alwaysinpain · 04/08/2020 11:58

@SomeOtherGirl OP when their next renewal of Tenancy comes around, I would put them on a 30 day Statutory Periodic Tenancy. This means the tenancy automatically renews on every rent payment date each month or you can give 60 days notice then for any reason (they can give 30 days notice then too). However this can renew each month indefinitely. This type of tenancy gives both of you an 'easy out' should any problems arise

EL8888 · 04/08/2020 12:06

Another vote to evict. They are piss takers of the highest order, prioritising Tv subscriptions over rent. Then getting you to change the lightbulb. So lazy and entitled to boot. They need to go

Original poster

SomeOtherGirl · 04/08/2020 12:09

[quote Alwaysinpain]@SomeOtherGirl OP when their next renewal of Tenancy comes around, I would put them on a 30 day Statutory Periodic Tenancy. This means the tenancy automatically renews on every rent payment date each month or you can give 60 days notice then for any reason (they can give 30 days notice then too). However this can renew each month indefinitely. This type of tenancy gives both of you an 'easy out' should any problems arise[/quote]
Really is it that easy? It sounds almost too easy. Surely everyone would use this to get rid of bad tenants.

OP posts:

lyralalala · 04/08/2020 12:10

Really is it that easy? It sounds almost too easy. Surely everyone would use this to get rid of bad tenants.

You still have to go through the same process to actually evict them with giving notice and going to court.

It just means you can do it after one month or two months, rather than six months (or whatever length of tenancy you give).

It doesn’t mean they’ll just go if you give notice.

dontdisturbmenow · 04/08/2020 12:45

For me making profit from property is just a small part of a wider system which means people can work hard and not afford a home that is secure
I don't think you can fully blame LLs for the price hike.

Also there are different ways to look at it. Most LLs pay quite a bit of tax on their property, as already said, some will do so close to 40% of it, in which case it's unlikely to bring much monthly profit after paying for the mortgage, but for many, it will be a retirement fund, which will likely leave them the first targeted when a decision will have to be made about the state pension being cut. They will likely have to live of that income whilst lower income family will receive their pension, some with added pension credit, with the LLs likely to have paid much more into the system.

I don't get the hatred for people who ultimately pay into the system. I'm not talking about the big organisations that manage to avoid it, but smaller LLs, who represent over 80% of the total LLs.

OscarWildesCat · 04/08/2020 12:49

They are taking the piss!

ZigZagPlant · 04/08/2020 13:01

Some people have an issue with basic economics which is all the housing market is...

Original poster

SomeOtherGirl · 04/08/2020 13:02

@lyralalala

Really is it that easy? It sounds almost too easy. Surely everyone would use this to get rid of bad tenants.

You still have to go through the same process to actually evict them with giving notice and going to court.

It just means you can do it after one month or two months, rather than six months (or whatever length of tenancy you give).

It doesn’t mean they’ll just go if you give notice.

Oh I see, thanks very much. It's a bit of a minefield sometimes x

OP posts:

drspouse · 04/08/2020 13:37

@Eeeeeeeok that system looks great. A really good long-term-renter culture would be wonderful for both landlords and renters. Nothing there to say landlords don't make a profit.

Incidentally, if you, like me and the OP, had to move for work would you rent out your current home? Sell it? Leave it empty?

lyralalala · 04/08/2020 13:49

@SomeOtherGirl Oh I see, thanks very much. It's a bit of a minefield sometimes x

Can I, kindly, suggest you read up on this stuff and learn about it?

I hate Letting agents and would never recommend them, but as a LL you need to know this stuff. You have legal responsibilities and if you make an error when issuing notice it can completely halt the process.

As it is it sounds like you are lucky that you have tenants who've just got a bit behind. If a professionally dodgy tenant spots your lack of knowledge you could be tied in knots and it could cost you thousands.

You need to know this stuff. If you don't then you need to find a decent and reputable LA to manage it for you (though you still need to know your legal responsibilities because you personally can be held to account for them).

Alwaysinpain · 04/08/2020 13:59

@lyralalala

Really is it that easy? It sounds almost too easy. Surely everyone would use this to get rid of bad tenants.

You still have to go through the same process to actually evict them with giving notice and going to court.

It just means you can do it after one month or two months, rather than six months (or whatever length of tenancy you give).

It doesn’t mean they’ll just go if you give notice.

This is incorrect. The tenancy ends every month, you do not have to renew it. You do not need an excuse. It is entirely your choice.

@SomeOtherGirl
Please ignore the poster who says you still need good reason, that is incorrect.

Alwaysinpain · 04/08/2020 14:01

[quote lyralalala]**@SomeOtherGirl* Oh I see, thanks very much. It's a bit of a minefield sometimes x*

Can I, kindly, suggest you read up on this stuff and learn about it?

It has been the case now, that once a tenancy is up, a LL can go straight to the high court and instruct High Court Sheriffs to manually remove tenants who refuse to go, for the princely sum of £60. They will be removed that day

motherheroic · 04/08/2020 14:04

Houses are investments and not all investments pay off. If a tenant is the only way you can afford the house I would just sell.

ZigZagPlant · 04/08/2020 14:30

The process is the same whether fixed term or periodic. It’s a s.21 and the LL always needs to give two months.

User43210 · 04/08/2020 14:53

@SomeOtherGirl I'm still in shock at the lightbulb comment! It seems a very casual rental (no letting agents) but if you do have a standard contract, it should clearly state that lightbulbs (not sure of the wording, but possibly "fixtures") are the tenant's responsibility - unless the contract states otherwise. So if they try that again, it's a big no! Regardless of the covid or pregnancy situation, it's their cost and for them to maintain.

Bearnecessity · 04/08/2020 14:56

SomeOtherGirl.. I used to be a teacher too..that was irony...

roarfeckingroarr · 04/08/2020 15:21

What about the other 10% OP, who is paying you that!

I'm a landlord too, just one property that I used to live in, and I would evict for repeated under payments.

Treacletoots · 04/08/2020 15:43

My tenancy agreement, even when in the fixed period has a break clause, so that after 4 months minimum I can give the standard 2 month's notice via a s.21 should I need to (I've only done this once in 10 years)

Have you decided what you're doing with your tenants OP?

Treacletoots · 04/08/2020 15:52

@grannyweatherwaxeshatpin

When I said Generation Rent I was referring to the political lobbying group rather than a group of tenants persay!

They are well known for making millions but for helping to house no-one. Campaigning for the fee ban (mostly good) except ignoring landlords when they told them it would make it much harder to rent with a pet if they persisted with the max 5 week deposit (they did)

They despise landlords for being landlords, mostly out of petty jealousy. When asked but if all landlords sold up, where would someone who is reliant on the private rental sector live, they have no answers.

If they put their donations towards perhaps paying struggling tenants deposits or paying arrears instead of advertising and paying their directors fat salaries, they'd help a lot more tenants, who genuinely need some support.

(Rant over..)

safariboot · 04/08/2020 15:54

@Alwaysinpain please give a reliable source. What you are saying is contrary to all information I have.

dontdisturbmenow · 04/08/2020 16:42

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