To ask if universal credit should take into account what your living expenses are?

[Cheeseandlobster]

I have a family member who had a baby dd this year. She lives with her mum and dad in a granny annexe and pays no bills, rent or food. She sends me screenshots every time she gets a payment saying she is amazed at how much she is being paid (around £750 every 4 weeks). She also sends me screenshots of what she is buying and it's often urban decay makeup, Michael Kors designer clothing, etc. She has openly said she has no intention of ever leaving home or working as she has never been so well off and had such nice things.

She is a great mum to her dd and her dd has everything she needs but this isn't what benefits are for and she is now making a lifestyle choice of staying on uc for as long as she can. I have explained that once her dd is older she will have to find a job and tried to encourage her to think about what she would like to do when that time comes but she is adamant she won't be working again.

This isn't her fault in a way as the system has allowed her to do this and her mum and dad are choosing not to charge housekeep. I also know people on the other end of the spectrum on uc who have large bills and are really struggling to make ends meet

So should uc take into account what your outgoings are too? I don't know how much it would cost to administer but the differences in living styles between those living at home and those living independently seem huge and it doesn't seem fair to me

@Purpletigers

Why is it a shitty idea ? They won’t be compulsory, only if you don’t live with family or don’t work . It would be cost effective too .

Fucking hell. And what about the families that suddenly fall on hard times/redundancy/illness/one parent dies? Do we suggest that to them too? Where’s the dignity

@abstractprojection

If she’s getting 750pm she is falsely claiming for rent which she isn’t paying

She is not falsely claiming - if she's over 25 she will get a standard element of £409.89 and a child element of £235.83. I expect op is including child benefit of £80 a month into the calculation to get around £750 ??

Boomclaps- I was referring to those who never worked not someone who has fallen on hard times. Benefits should be in place for illness , redundancy and widow/ widowers allowance .

And then when employers see their address on the application and don't hire them because "we don't want Benefit House people here" they can be stuck in the dormitory for longer. When people don't want their kids playing with the Benefit House kids or going to the same school as them and so they end up with their own separate playground within the grounds and people avoid sending their DC to the school nearest the dorm because "that's where the Benefit House kids go, you don't want to send your kids there". And when your day to day life becomes subject to the ideological whims of the government of the day who could decide that from now on you're not allowed alcohol, or you're only allowed out of the grounds between the hours of 8am and 5pm, or that children over the age of 12 have to live in a separate dorm, or whatever other "initiatives" they decide will win votes.

What you're talking about is not a supportive community, it's a fucking ghetto.

I repeat - shiity idea.

Ok, now reading some of these comments, I'm even more confused. I don't get £409.89 standard element , or £235.83 child element. I get as I stated below, £943 and some pence a month, £545 of that is my housing allowance which is to cover my rent, even though I have to pay an extra £110 a month to pay my rent in full. Am I missing something? How do some people get nearly £700 a month without the housing allowance and some don't?

As pp said, you would be penalising those helped by families

but families are one of the most important supports in life, to help people get back on their feet.

We shouldn't do anything to discourage people living with family

Benefits should be in place for illness , redundancy and widow/ widowers allowance

Excluding state pension, most benefits are paid to those who are in work.

I don’t think anyone able to work should be able to live solely on benefits .

You'll be pleased to know that people out of work don't have a good standard of living, it's appx £100 per week for a single person over 25. The incentive to work is there.

They could live in some kind of dormitory/ halls of residence where they can get support to get back to work / help with child care . They would be single sex so no risk of any unwanted /unplanned pregnancies .

Women can get pregnant outside of their home and men get impregnate outside of their home. Perhaps forced sterilisation of people on benefits could be considered? And the cost of building, staffing and maintaining these halls would not be cost effective.

"it's a fucking ghetto."

Yes and it would need uniforms to identify people who went outside the workhouse
Maybe a fence and security guards too, so people only did went out to work

so people only did went out to work

@EmbarrassedUser £750 a month to literally spend on whatever takes your fancy is a lot of money, I have always worked until I lost my job in May, I have never had that much "spare"money, and the money I receive now doesn't even cover my outgoings, so, please, if you have £750 spare a month please send it my way, after all, it's not mega bucks , is it?!

@Purpletigers

Boomclaps- I was referring to those who never worked not someone who has fallen on hard times. Benefits should be in place for illness , redundancy and widow/ widowers allowance .

You do know, barring incapacity/illness/disability benefits most social security benefits in the UK are paid to top up people in work, or for those who have recently left the workforce

The people other talking about who have never worked are few and far between

So from my understanding UC is made up of different elements - your friend will likely be getting the Personal Element and the Child Element (which doesn't work out to 750 so I assume she's getting something else too, could be a PIP or disability allowance?)

Regardless the UC system is unfortunately flawed in that it benefits some people more than others. For example we had to go onto UC when I was made redundant, we got our personal allowance, child element and rent BUT it didn't cover our full rent as it was deemed too high and outwith the local housing allowance. Plus, we still had all these outgoings (which previously were within budget) so while UC helped it certainly gave us no stability and we couldn't rely on it like your friend. I guess it's set up like that so people don't rely on it but some folk do seem to slip through the cracks of it.

I do believe that for the first X amount of month UC should take into consideration outstanding bills and commitments that can not be cancelled or put on payment holiday ie higher rents, financial or hire contacts. But only for a set amount of time, enough to help you into another job or make alternative arrangements.

[quote TeanAndChocolateBiscuits]@EmbarrassedUser £750 a month to literally spend on whatever takes your fancy is a lot of money, I have always worked until I lost my job in May, I have never had that much "spare"money, and the money I receive now doesn't even cover my outgoings, so, please, if you have £750 spare a month please send it my way, after all, it's not mega bucks , is it?![/quote]
Unless she’s committing fraud or is disabled she’s not getting that much PCM

@TeanAndChocolateBiscuits

Ok, now reading some of these comments, I'm even more confused. I don't get £409.89 standard element , or £235.83 child element. I get as I stated below, £943 and some pence a month, £545 of that is my housing allowance which is to cover my rent, even though I have to pay an extra £110 a month to pay my rent in full. Am I missing something? How do some people get nearly £700 a month without the housing allowance and some don't?

Are you on universal credit? If you are you will see the breakdown on your statement. Remember that a number of things can reduce the maximum universal credit - if you get certain benefits such contribution based (new style) JSA or ESA, if you have savings over £6000 and reductions for wages (Calculation depends on whether you/any partner are ill or if you have have children or not). It can also be reduced for benefit overpayments or for the advance.

Rent On universal credit (and housing benefit) is limited depending on the number of bedrooms you have/occupants in social housing (bedroom tax) and local housing allowance in private rent. Can also be reduced if you have other non dependents living with you.

@TeanAndChocolateBiscuits

Ok, now reading some of these comments, I'm even more confused. I don't get £409.89 standard element , or £235.83 child element. I get as I stated below, £943 and some pence a month, £545 of that is my housing allowance which is to cover my rent, even though I have to pay an extra £110 a month to pay my rent in full. Am I missing something? How do some people get nearly £700 a month without the housing allowance and some don't?

Everyone gets a standard allowance , either a single one or a couples one. £934 minus your housing is just about the amount for single over 25 standard element??

[quote TeanAndChocolateBiscuits]@EmbarrassedUser £750 a month to literally spend on whatever takes your fancy is a lot of money, I have always worked until I lost my job in May, I have never had that much "spare"money, and the money I receive now doesn't even cover my outgoings, so, please, if you have £750 spare a month please send it my way, after all, it's not mega bucks , is it?![/quote]
Yes it is a lot, but she only has that amount of disposable income because she lives with her parents and they don't charge her any board or rent. If they did charge her rent then under the Uc system she cannot claim rent element for that because she is living with her parents. So it's the parents that facilitate her having that much disposable income. Another person in a similar situation living with parents could be charged £250 a month board if the parents wished too so obviously less disposable income for them.

I think the issue here is not so much the benefits. The woman is a single parent so I have no doubt she should be helped financially. The issue here is that she point blank refuses to work. That irks me. Mainly because she is relying on the generosity of others for this privilege. It may sound pretty to some, but I honestly don't believe this is a healthy mindset for a young woman.

I believe the welfare system should be a part of a civilised society. Anyone can fall on hard times. But it shouldn't be used as lifestyle choice at the expense of tax payers.

Petty*

And to those saying "it's 187£ a week, that's not alot!"

My partner works 45+ hours a week to support us, I stay at home with a 2 year old, and after rent, and essential bills like gas and electric, we don't have 187£ to spend. We have just under 100 if we're lucky, and need to get food out of that.

OP is stating that her friend literally has no rent or essential bills so she has 187£ a week for food, nappies and whatever the hell she likes. Sorry but that is a lot, and way above what most people have each week.

@Babyroobs Everyone gets a standard allowance , either a single one or a couples one. £934 minus your housing is just about the amount for single over 25 standard element??

I am a single parent to 2 DS, my eldest doesn't live at home so I don't claim for him, my youngest is school age so I obviously can claim for him, I have no savings, no other income and that is all I receive . I queried the amount but apparently it's correct 💁

@Babyroobs sorry, should have also said that even if it's right in the fact the amount left is a single person allowance, surely I'm still short in the child element?

@TeanAndChocolateBiscuits

*@Babyroobs* Everyone gets a standard allowance , either a single one or a couples one. £934 minus your housing is just about the amount for single over 25 standard element??

I am a single parent to 2 DS, my eldest doesn't live at home so I don't claim for him, my youngest is school age so I obviously can claim for him, I have no savings, no other income and that is all I receive . I queried the amount but apparently it's correct 💁

From what you have said it sounds like your child element is missing. If your child was born before april 2017 you should have a child element of £281.25 on your claim. If that is not there on your statement then you need to ring them asap as you are being underpaid.

TeanAndChocolateBiscuits : If the child element is missing from your statement then that will also affect your rent element, and if you start working you would get a work allowance on your claim, so if the child element is missing you really need to get it sorted asap.