To ask if universal credit should take into account what your living expenses are?

[Cheeseandlobster]

I have a family member who had a baby dd this year. She lives with her mum and dad in a granny annexe and pays no bills, rent or food. She sends me screenshots every time she gets a payment saying she is amazed at how much she is being paid (around £750 every 4 weeks). She also sends me screenshots of what she is buying and it's often urban decay makeup, Michael Kors designer clothing, etc. She has openly said she has no intention of ever leaving home or working as she has never been so well off and had such nice things.

She is a great mum to her dd and her dd has everything she needs but this isn't what benefits are for and she is now making a lifestyle choice of staying on uc for as long as she can. I have explained that once her dd is older she will have to find a job and tried to encourage her to think about what she would like to do when that time comes but she is adamant she won't be working again.

This isn't her fault in a way as the system has allowed her to do this and her mum and dad are choosing not to charge housekeep. I also know people on the other end of the spectrum on uc who have large bills and are really struggling to make ends meet

So should uc take into account what your outgoings are too? I don't know how much it would cost to administer but the differences in living styles between those living at home and those living independently seem huge and it doesn't seem fair to me

@jigglypuffcookie

When her child is older she will be spending a lot more on food, clothing etc.

£750 is not a lot of money and she might feel flush just now but I don't think that will be for long. Look at the cost of food, nappies, clothing and shoes every 6months.

They will have taken into account she pays no rent. She will also be getting a bit more if the baby is young - this might go down! When you apply they ask for all your costs and check everything.

Applying for universal credits is already a long process, adding more to it is just awful tbh. If your circumstances ever change and you have to apply you would see how hard is actually already is.

You come across as quite judgmental and 'superior' which I don't think is your intention?

There is no extra money for a young baby. She will also have child benefit of £80 on top of that so really not bad with no housing costs to pay. £200 a week on clothes and nappies is not feasible. Hopefully she is saving some. This is not a unique situation though, I know a few young mums around here who live like this with parents .

Well she sounds very lucky to have such supportive parents and I'm sure such set ups are relatively rare, but the cost of allocating UC according to everyone's personal circumstances would be enormous.

No OP because you are generally responsible for how much your outgoings are. Are you suggesting that as an example - someone with two kids then chooses to live in a five bedroomed house should get paid more by the taxpayers because their bills are larger?

Your friend is in an unusual and kind of fortunate position for a person on uc, I agree she should look at her future prospects as uc won't sustain her for life and home circumstances can change. Uc is set at a mininum a person can live on, if uc got to account for peoples real outgoings it would be a catastrophe. Rent is already capped (fair enough) and they would cap outgoings if that was also the case. They can't tell you what to spend your money on once you receive it, as it should be.

Single person allowance is less than £450 pm. In her current circumstances that would work doubt it is going to be the same in 16yrs though.

Your family member will eventually have to get a job or face penalties for not applying (will have to provide proof and attend workshops to improve skills). Her temporary improvement in living standards will not be maintained once she's forced to search for work unless she gets a job. Any form of benefits is intended to be a stop gap until you enter work where you will need less benefits or to stop altogether because your income has pass a certain threshold or you are no longer eligible for other reasons (children's ages, savings etc). This income will eventually come to a stop and it's unlikely her parents will support her forever. Long term, she's unlikely to be as successful as others who haven't been on benefits for a long time due to lack of experience. It will affect her for a long time and eventually won't be a choice.
If you think one relatives lifestyle should mean that others in a similar situation should have reduced income is bonkers. As others have said you need to look at the other end of the spectrum, people who live in high cost cities or rural areas where transport, food and housing can be expensive. What about a north/south divide so people living in Bradford have a lower income than Brighton?

@BakedCam

UC is not paid every 4 weeks. It is paid calendar monthly. Huge difference.

It's also not £750 Uc per month as over 25 rate is £409 a month and child rate for a child born after April 2017 is £235 a month which doesn't add up to £750 unless op is including child benefit. Also the £409 is a temporary increase due to covid and would ordinarily be about £83 a month les so could well drop next April.

@jigglypuffcookie

When her child is older she will be spending a lot more on food, clothing etc.

£750 is not a lot of money and she might feel flush just now but I don't think that will be for long. Look at the cost of food, nappies, clothing and shoes every 6months.

They will have taken into account she pays no rent. She will also be getting a bit more if the baby is young - this might go down! When you apply they ask for all your costs and check everything.

Applying for universal credits is already a long process, adding more to it is just awful tbh. If your circumstances ever change and you have to apply you would see how hard is actually already is.

You come across as quite judgmental and 'superior' which I don't think is your intention?

I know uc is a nightmare and I know £750 every 4 weeks isn't a huge amount of money. I have been very supportive of her and have already said she is a great mum and the system has allowed this so who can blame her for taking advantage of it. But my friend struggles hugely and it just doesn't seem fair. I don't think I am superior. I have been on benefits myself in the past and it can be shit. I know that I was more like my friend than my family member - it was hard! I couldn't even afford to buy bread AND milk at the end of some weeks. I had to choose which.

Her parents are choosing to subsidise her at the moment. However at some point in the future they may change their mind, and then she may find out just how tough it actually is

UC are notoriously uncaring, your friend got lucky. They will force her to look for work once her child is in school, else they will stop her benefits. The vast majority of people on UC are really struggling to get by, and they DO already take income and outgoings into account. My rent is only £395 a month and they don't even cover the full amount of that. But, in a messed up way, I'm also lucky because I have the disability element and PIP (which are both also notoriously difficult to get) to top up my bills. I'll be paying a hell of a lot more rent soon because I need to move, UC don't care. I'll be lucky if I even get paid on time when I move because any tiny change of circumstance (ie. Change of address) will fuck up the terrible beurocratic system they have.

Your friend will face these difficulties soon enough, unfortunately. That being said, people on benefits are allowed to spend their money on whatever they like, and it really isn't anyone else's business. Be happy that they haven't fucked her over yet.

@RedAndGreenPlaid

If only universal credit paid my kids school fees. We’d have a spare £5000 a month!

If your friend starts working she can earn a whopping £512 a month without her Uc even reducing at all, she really will be quids in then op.

[quote Hubstar]@RedAndGreenPlaid

If only universal credit paid my kids school fees. We’d have a spare £5000 a month![/quote]
What have school fees got to do with anything?? Are you just bragging?

I wonder whats she's told them about her living expenses? That she's living at home for free?

She does not receive the housing element, as she is not paying any rent atm ( you need to declare if you do and be prepared to present proof, a lease for example ). At the moment she qualifies for the single person element + 1 child element.

However, she's in a very good privileged position as she lives with her family who do not charge her rent, utility bills, council tax, internet, TV licence etc childcare/baby sitting money, probably she doesnt spend that much for food either, travel expenses to buy food, nappies etc- all of which she would have had to spend herself otherwise - like most of the other single parents.

So UC money might be A LOT of money to someone who still lives at home and is not charged a penny for anything by family, but these situations are not too common these days.

@Northofsomewhere

Your family member will eventually have to get a job or face penalties for not applying (will have to provide proof and attend workshops to improve skills). Her temporary improvement in living standards will not be maintained once she's forced to search for work unless she gets a job. Any form of benefits is intended to be a stop gap until you enter work where you will need less benefits or to stop altogether because your income has pass a certain threshold or you are no longer eligible for other reasons (children's ages, savings etc). This income will eventually come to a stop and it's unlikely her parents will support her forever. Long term, she's unlikely to be as successful as others who haven't been on benefits for a long time due to lack of experience. It will affect her for a long time and eventually won't be a choice. If you think one relatives lifestyle should mean that others in a similar situation should have reduced income is bonkers. As others have said you need to look at the other end of the spectrum, people who live in high cost cities or rural areas where transport, food and housing can be expensive. What about a north/south divide so people living in Bradford have a lower income than Brighton?

I think the opposite. I definitely do not think that uc should be reduced. It's not enough for most people. Buts it's more than enough for others and it should not enable a designer lifestyle.

Someone else said there was a covid increase. I think that is correct as it jumped massively during the pandemic. She knows that when her dd is older she will need to look at working but she doesn't want to and states she will find a way round it. She is actually very bright, confident and articulate. She could do anything she wanted to - especially with her mum and dad being so supportive. It worries me that she has been seduced by this money she is getting now and can't see the bigger picture

YANBU OP The system shouldn't allow what your friend is doing and I see your point. To PPs talking about school fees and wine I assume there would be an upper limit! Just not paying expenses for people who have none.

Her parents are effectively subbing her lifestyle. I know some will disagree but in my book she should be giving her parents some money towards house upkeep and bills and probably if she paid her way she'd not be getting designer clothes. Up to her family if they want to give her cask though. I don't think we can have a system which takes away what your family give to you and reduces your UC accordingly.

I know uc is a nightmare and I know £750 every 4 weeks isn't a huge amount of money.

The maximum UC for her set of circumstances would be c.£645 a month unless you're including Child Benefit too?

She’s not claiming anything she isn’t entitled to, so 🤷🏼‍♀️

So a young person who’s bright, should just rot on benefits because she can? How does this help her or the many young people in our society make a contribution? To gain some independence and self worth? To show the next generation work ethic?

Just because rage can, doesn’t mean she shoul.

@HerNameWasEliza

Her parents are effectively subbing her lifestyle. I know some will disagree but in my book she should be giving her parents some money towards house upkeep and bills and probably if she paid her way she'd not be getting designer clothes. Up to her family if they want to give her cask though. I don't think we can have a system which takes away what your family give to you and reduces your UC accordingly.

This exactly and to be honest most sensible parents would charge her something for her and her child living there so that she learns to budget. Even if they took some money from her each month and saved it for when she needs a deposit and first months rent up front for her own rental.

I sympathize OP, you have a valid point. People get very, very defensive on MN whenever benefits are mentioned, for some reason........

But if I live in a massive 10 bed mansion, my gas and electricity bills will be enormous. Should the taxpayer fund that? If not, it seems that you don't actually want it to be based on expenses and you just want this woman to struggle more.

Your family member does sound quite naive and will get a reality check once she's told she should be looking for work.

I don't think there should be any other checks though - it's already a long process and as you said some families really struggle. No family should ever have to choose between bread and milk and some experiences on uc are brutal!

Does it affect you in anyway?