Page 6 | To ask if universal credit should take into account what your living expenses are?

Babyroobs · 02/08/2020 22:49

@Purpletigers

Kitty - it is a benefits trap. Benefits harm the recipients in the long term. Perhaps if they were only awarded after having paid in for a given number of years and then only for a year , fewer would feel trapped .

And if people haven't paid in - are they meant to starve?

Original poster

Cheeseandlobster · 02/08/2020 22:52

@jgjgjgjgjg

OP do you really think £750 per four weeks is living in luxury? It's less than £187 per week. That won't cover much in the way of designer clothes and posh make up. I think both you and her need to work on increasing your expectations of life.

My expectations and her expectations don't really matter. The fact is £187 per week is plenty to cover a couple of urban decay eye shadow pallettes ( roughly £35 to £40 a pop), some Michael Kors sun glasses (around £80 each) and still have money for nappies and formula. Benefits are designed to maintain a relatively basiclifestyle until you can increase your earning capacity - excluding disability etc. They were never supposed to fund designer purchases.

OP posts:

KittyFantastico · 02/08/2020 22:54

It’s never the child’s fault . It’s the parents’ fault

And yet saying the parents should expect poverty as a consequence of their decisions punishes the child by extension.

Unemployment benefits shouldn't provide a lavish lifestyle, no, but they should be of an amount that affords a dignified lifestyle with enough money for rent, utilities, food, toiletries, and clothing.

slipperywhensparticus · 02/08/2020 22:55

@Cheeseandlobster

I have a family member who had a baby dd this year. She lives with her mum and dad in a granny annexe and pays no bills, rent or food. She sends me screenshots every time she gets a payment saying she is amazed at how much she is being paid (around £750 every 4 weeks). She also sends me screenshots of what she is buying and it's often urban decay makeup, Michael Kors designer clothing, etc. She has openly said she has no intention of ever leaving home or working as she has never been so well off and had such nice things.

She is a great mum to her dd and her dd has everything she needs but this isn't what benefits are for and she is now making a lifestyle choice of staying on uc for as long as she can. I have explained that once her dd is older she will have to find a job and tried to encourage her to think about what she would like to do when that time comes but she is adamant she won't be working again.

This isn't her fault in a way as the system has allowed her to do this and her mum and dad are choosing not to charge housekeep. I also know people on the other end of the spectrum on uc who have large bills and are really struggling to make ends meet

So should uc take into account what your outgoings are too? I don't know how much it would cost to administer but the differences in living styles between those living at home and those living independently seem huge and it doesn't seem fair to me

When the child turns 2 she needs to prepare for work when the child is three she needs to be working they will soon take it all off her

Purpletigers · 02/08/2020 22:56

Why would anyone starve ? Are you saying people would starve rather than work ? I don’t think anyone able to work should be able to live solely on benefits .
They could live in some kind of dormitory/ halls of residence where they can get support to get back to work / help with child care . They would be single sex so no risk of any unwanted /unplanned pregnancies .

MilerVino · 02/08/2020 22:57

So should uc take into account what your outgoings are too? I don't know how much it would cost to administer but the differences in living styles between those living at home and those living independently seem huge and it doesn't seem fair to me

UC does do this. Any benefits do this. UC includes a housing component. To claim that you have to show your rental agreement. It won't necessarily cover your entire rent though but is capped. You also have to declare if you're living with a partner and if you have dependants. The JSA part of UC is not large - if you're single and over 25 it's under £100 per week and that includes an addition because of Covid-19.

KittyFantastico · 02/08/2020 22:57

They could live in some kind of dormitory/ halls of residence where they can get support to get back to work / help with child care . They would be single sex so no risk of any unwanted /unplanned pregnancies

I cannot even begin to list the reasons why this is a shitty idea except to say there is a reason why we no longer have workhouses and labour camps in the UK.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2020 22:59

"we no longer have workhouses and labour camps in the UK."

.... yet

If some pp had their way, it would be back to the glorious days of Victorian Britain

Purpletigers · 02/08/2020 22:59

If you don’t have a job then you can’t really expect a life other than one in poverty tbh . Benefits should provide the minimum required for a short period of time . There should always be an end date . I think people would be more careful of their choices if we didn’t have a welfare system in place .

MilerVino · 02/08/2020 22:59

They could live in some kind of dormitory/ halls of residence where they can get support to get back to work / help with child care . They would be single sex so no risk of any unwanted /unplanned pregnancies

I know, we could call them work houses.

Fucks sake. Sometimes there are more people than jobs. You can't magic a job out of nowhere.

Purpletigers · 02/08/2020 23:01

Why is it a shitty idea ? They won’t be compulsory, only if you don’t live with family or don’t work . It
would be cost effective too .

Purpletigers · 02/08/2020 23:02

Or supported living ?

Purpletigers · 02/08/2020 23:03

Miller - best not to add more people to the equation then ?

KittyFantastico · 02/08/2020 23:05

It would be cost effective too

Look at how well it went the last time a nation decided camps were a good way of keeping undesirable away from more worthy members of society. And look what happened when they realised how to make those camps really cost effective.

If you want to live in a country with 0% unemployment and "incentives" to work such as going to live on a work camp then I can recommend some countries? North Korea, perhaps?

Original poster

Cheeseandlobster · 02/08/2020 23:05

@MilerVino

So should uc take into account what your outgoings are too? I don't know how much it would cost to administer but the differences in living styles between those living at home and those living independently seem huge and it doesn't seem fair to me

UC does do this. Any benefits do this. UC includes a housing component. To claim that you have to show your rental agreement. It won't necessarily cover your entire rent though but is capped. You also have to declare if you're living with a partner and if you have dependants. The JSA part of UC is not large - if you're single and over 25 it's under £100 per week and that includes an addition because of Covid-19.

I wasn't really referring to housing costs as you don't see that as it goes straight to cover your rent. I was referring more to gas, electricity, water rates, food etc. My family member pays none of that when my friend, also on uc, pays it all yet their payments are virtually the same

OP posts:

Lockdownlooks · 02/08/2020 23:06

Just some figures

Universal credit standard allowance for under 25 last year £251.77, was due to rise to £256.05 first increase since 2015, went up to £342.72 because of Covid 19.

Universal credit standard allowance single 25+ last year £317.82, was due to rise to £323.22, again a new increase since 2015 went up to £409.79

abstractprojection · 02/08/2020 23:09

If she’s getting 750pm she is falsely claiming for rent which she isn’t paying

Purpletigers · 02/08/2020 23:09

I never said anyone was undesirable , it would be a system designed to help those who can’t or won’t help themselves. Like a retirement home set up but for those out of work with young children . They could help support each other.

safariboot · 02/08/2020 23:13

Are you saying people would starve rather than work

Numerous people have starved. On the current benefits system. Usually people with health problems or disabilities that the DWP refuse to accept are real. Like the diabetic man who was found dead in his flat, the cupboards devoid of food, less than a pound in his wallet, and a stack of printed CVs next to him.

Purpletigers · 02/08/2020 23:14

I don’t care about living in a country with unemployed people . I don’t want to live somewhere where a young person has already said she has no desire to ever work again . There’s something very wrong with that mentality and something wrong with a society which allows it to happen . For her to get her £750, someone else had to hand it over . On its own it’s not much but collectively it adds up to about a third of total government expenditure. It’s too much !

TeanAndChocolateBiscuits · 02/08/2020 23:15

I'm a bit confused as to how she gets this much, I'm on UC, I receive around £900 a month, £545 of that is housing benefit to go towards my £655 a month rent, I had to provide proof that I rent and how much I pay, the other £350 a month is for my DS and a small amount for me. If I didn't receive housing benefit all I would get is the £350, so how does she get that much if she isn't paying rent?

Boomclaps · 02/08/2020 23:16

At most she’s getting £700 every calendar month. If DC was born pre 2017.
If not she will be getting £650 every month

If she’s getting the higher amount she will have to be work searching /preparing for work.

TrainspottingWelsh · 02/08/2020 23:17

Excellent idea @Purpletigers. We could separate them into deserving and undeserving poor. Perhaps respectable members of the community could call round to check they've sold everything of value first? Can't have the scrounging bastards keeping their 12' tv's, iPhones and urban decay eye shadow pallets.

@Cheeseandlobster my sincerest apologies for doubting your motivation in starting the thread. I just assumed that if you'd been on here 18yrs then you'd have had ample opportunity to bitch about single mother's discuss the benefits system on any of the regular goady threads without starting your own.

Lovely1a2b3c · 02/08/2020 23:17

There are lots of SAHM with wealthy husbands who are living on far more than £750 per month and who don't deserve to do so any more than your relative.

Your relative obviously has some adverse life circumstances if she's alone and living with her parents- no-one really wants to live like that.

I would just let her enjoy that small positive in her life and not think about it too much!

EmbarrassedUser · 02/08/2020 23:18

£750pcm is hardly mega bucks so her parents must be supporting her financially (as well as free use of the annexe) If she were my friend I’d actually be feeling pity for her that she’s still living at home rather than living independently.