To ask if universal credit should take into account what your living expenses are?

jolokoy · 02/08/2020 18:30

DioneTheDiabolist · 02/08/2020 18:33

YABU and utterly ridiculous OP.

RedAndGreenPlaid · 02/08/2020 18:35

My children are in fee-paying schools, so my outgoings are enormous. If I lose my job should the tax-payer pick up my school fees bill? Really?

Original poster

Cheeseandlobster · 02/08/2020 18:36

Why ridiculous? I don't understand how someone who has no outgoings has £750 every 4 weeks while someone else who has to pay gas, electricity, water rates, broadband and food ( they get housing benefit and council tax support) gets the same. I already said I don't know if it would be feasible to administer or monitor but the disparity is huge

OP posts:

Bluntness100 · 02/08/2020 18:37

So if I live in a really expensive house, smoke, love costly wine, and only wear designer clothes it should be taken into account..

Original poster

Cheeseandlobster · 02/08/2020 18:38

@RedAndGreenPlaid

My children are in fee-paying schools, so my outgoings are enormous. If I lose my job should the tax-payer pick up my school fees bill? Really?

I am only talking about Universal Credit so of course not

OP posts:

Babyroobs · 02/08/2020 18:39

@Cheeseandlobster

I have a family member who had a baby dd this year. She lives with her mum and dad in a granny annexe and pays no bills, rent or food. She sends me screenshots every time she gets a payment saying she is amazed at how much she is being paid (around £750 every 4 weeks). She also sends me screenshots of what she is buying and it's often urban decay makeup, Michael Kors designer clothing, etc. She has openly said she has no intention of ever leaving home or working as she has never been so well off and had such nice things.

She is a great mum to her dd and her dd has everything she needs but this isn't what benefits are for and she is now making a lifestyle choice of staying on uc for as long as she can. I have explained that once her dd is older she will have to find a job and tried to encourage her to think about what she would like to do when that time comes but she is adamant she won't be working again.

This isn't her fault in a way as the system has allowed her to do this and her mum and dad are choosing not to charge housekeep. I also know people on the other end of the spectrum on uc who have large bills and are really struggling to make ends meet

So should uc take into account what your outgoings are too? I don't know how much it would cost to administer but the differences in living styles between those living at home and those living independently seem huge and it doesn't seem fair to me

It does take account of outgoings in that it gives a rent element for people who rent and those that don't rent get a higher work allowance because they have a mortgage to pay. However there will be some like the person you mention and people who own their houses outright who benefit enormously from this but I guess that's just luck that her parents don't charge her anything to live there. If they did charge her she would not be able to claim rent element because she is just lodging with her parents so would need the extra money I guess. YANBU though, sometimes I am amazed by how much people get on UC. It is awful for non working people but for those that work and get the work allowance it really isn't bad.

IndecentFeminist · 02/08/2020 18:39

Well yes, but if that poster needed to claim universal credit, her outgoings are huge. Would UC need to pay for them?

Original poster

Cheeseandlobster · 02/08/2020 18:40

@Bluntness100

So if I live in a really expensive house, smoke, love costly wine, and only wear designer clothes it should be taken into account..

No because there is a local housing allowance for rent so you would have to pay the extra. I am talking about general basic outgoings- gas, electricity, food. Not designer clothes.

OP posts:

lockdownalli · 02/08/2020 18:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DewDropsonKittens · 02/08/2020 18:40

Do you mean that people on universal credit who have to pay bills should get more in comparison to someone like your friend?

Babyroobs · 02/08/2020 18:41

@Cheeseandlobster

Why ridiculous? I don't understand how someone who has no outgoings has £750 every 4 weeks while someone else who has to pay gas, electricity, water rates, broadband and food ( they get housing benefit and council tax support) gets the same. I already said I don't know if it would be feasible to administer or monitor but the disparity is huge

They wont be getting the same though will they? If they have rent to pay then UC will give them a rent element. If you live in an expensive area and the LHA is high then that rent element could be £1000 a month !!

Glitteryone · 02/08/2020 18:41

OP it is none of your business.

However if you go onto entitledto.com you will see that the government DO take her current living arrangements into consideration! It is one of the first questions that is asked and there is an option to declare that you live with family & pay no rent.

If this wasn’t her current circumstances and she was renting a house she would likely get double what she current may receives.

Original poster

Cheeseandlobster · 02/08/2020 18:42

@IndecentFeminist

Well yes, but if that poster needed to claim universal credit, her outgoings are huge. Would UC need to pay for them?

No of course not. Again I am talking about general and usual expenses. Not school fees. Things that everyone has to pay for like gas, water rates.

OP posts:

RedAndGreenPlaid · 02/08/2020 18:42

But that is what my UC would be spent on- school fees. That's what my income goes on.

BluebellsGreenbells · 02/08/2020 18:42

Unfortunately your family member is in a unique position. Which is actually a gilded cage!

Many people live in the breadline and if thy eh took into account outgoings then I would assume the tax payer would be paying more, not less.

You know those who struggle to feed their kids? Those families without basics let alone WiFi?

Anyway your family members circumstances may change at the drop of a hat, others fed up with their attitude, get turfed out, meet someone else, but she has to do what’s best for her.

Original poster

Cheeseandlobster · 02/08/2020 18:43

@lockdownalli

What an interesting first post OP

I have been here for years thank you- mnhq can confirm that. Probably longer than you- I have been here for around 18 years now

OP posts:

Original poster

Cheeseandlobster · 02/08/2020 18:46

@babyroobs yes but the rent element would be spent on rent. I am talking about the expenses associated with living independently or not. It doesn't seem fair that one person is using money for designer clothes while another person I know is on the bones of their arse

OP posts:

VettiyaIruken · 02/08/2020 18:48

If it is UC isn't that the one that sanctions you? And you have to start looking for work when the child hits a certain age?

It would cost a hell of a lot more than it saved to do individual assessments. And wouldn't it just lead to people increasing their outgoings if they knew the money they received would increase to cover them?

Or are you only talking about adjusting downwards?

jigglypuffcookie · 02/08/2020 18:48

When her child is older she will be spending a lot more on food, clothing etc.

£750 is not a lot of money and she might feel flush just now but I don't think that will be for long. Look at the cost of food, nappies, clothing and shoes every 6months.

They will have taken into account she pays no rent. She will also be getting a bit more if the baby is young - this might go down! When you apply they ask for all your costs and check everything.

Applying for universal credits is already a long process, adding more to it is just awful tbh. If your circumstances ever change and you have to apply you would see how hard is actually already is.

You come across as quite judgmental and 'superior' which I don't think is your intention?

Titterofwit · 02/08/2020 18:49

Universal credit does take into account normal outgoings and its sufficient to live on frugally for most people .

Your family member is hugely lucky to be in the position she is at the moment. Her luck is down to having parents who support her and dont expect any payment in return. Good for her and them.

Of course she should be putting some of her largess away for the future when she wont be so lucky. But its her choice and you can advise all you like but she can choose not to follow it.

She may be one of lifes lucky people who fall into a heap of shit and come up smelling of roses. If so she may well meet and marry someone who can take over from her parents in looking after her. It happens .

Tyersal · 02/08/2020 18:49

Yes it should op. I know of at least 2 people that live solely off benefits and also have a horse. I have a family member who also lives off benefits and has recently spent 5 figures on plastic surgery. Neither of these is what benefits are for

Original poster

Cheeseandlobster · 02/08/2020 18:50

@RedAndGreenPlaid

But that is what my UC would be spent on- school fees. That's what my income goes on.

I am not saying uc should cover school fees - it wouldn't cover a fraction of school fees. You would need to put your children into state education if that happenned. I am not saying uc should go up if people live more expensively but it should reflect whether someone has bills associated with keeping a home or whether it is being spent on designer clothing. In my opinion my family member should get less and my friend should get slightly more. But I am aware my friends situation is more reflective of real life and this would cost the tax payer more

OP posts:

BakedCam · 02/08/2020 18:51

UC is not paid every 4 weeks. It is paid calendar monthly. Huge difference.

Eatyourbanana · 02/08/2020 18:53

She’s not claiming anything she isn’t entitled to, so 🤷🏼‍♀️