To offer some grammar tips to anyone who might want them?

[UnaCorda]

I sincerely hope this doesn't come across as either rude or patronising - it genuinely isn't meant to. It's also not intended as a pedants' thread.

I just thought it might be useful to list a few common mistakes, with an explanation, so that anyone who isn't very confident with their written English might be able to correct errors which, for example, could perhaps count against them in a job application or when used in a professional context.

I'll start with three:

1. "Your" shows that what you're referring to (probably a person or object) belongs to whoever "you" is in the sentence; for example, "Your brother showed me your book". If you mean "you are" you need to write "you're".

2. "Non" is not a word on its own - it is negating something, such as in "non-stick" or "non-committal". ("None-stick" would be incorrect, as would "non of them".) "None" means there aren't any. "How many cakes are left?" "Sorry - none." Or, "How many of the children finished the test?" "None of them."

3. "Alot" is not a word and the same goes for "abit", "infront", "incase" and "inbetween". Instead use "a lot", etc., just like "a little".

Hope I haven't made any mistakes myself...

I wouldn't. A friend of mine was/ is extremely articulate with a excellent vocabulary. No ums ahs or like you knows. He never ever made a spelling mistake either. But he had no grasp of the past participle. He said 'i done' and 'it's broke'and 'i have wrote', 'I should have went' 😥

He was correcting me once, and feeling defensive, i brought it up. He couldn't even hear that it was wrong. He was baffled. At first he was resistant and defensive but then after he googled it, he made an effort to reteach himself. But you can't relearn grammar in my opinion. I know that speaking well is a part of his identity. He is proud of having a good command of English. I just hurt him. I regret it.

@mellowww

"non of them"

Have you ever seen anyone write this??

I feel your examples of mistakes are a bit contrived. And if the intention is kindly to flag up common mistakes and correct them, they ought actually to be common mistakes.

I'm not quite sure how I feel about this thread ...

Perhaps not that specific phrase, but I have genuinely seen many examples recently of people confusing "non" and "none", yes. I think it's linked to how people pronounce them.

"We went to many different places on our travels: London, Bristol, and Bath, Paris, Toulouse, Marseille, Tokyo and Osaka, Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth."

That is less clearly a 'list of lists' and is harder to parse and recognise that the cities are grouped by country (or would be if you'd not omitted an 'and').

I've got one that I would like help on. When I was at school years ago I was sure I was taught that you don't use a comma after and but I've noticed in lots of places that people seem to now.
Can you explain the rule?

What I hate on here is the snide comments on here when you make a typo or spelling mistake.
I'm dyslexic so I'm always paranoid about my grammar and spelling especially some of the nasty comments you get on a post when you dare to make a mistake.

I agree with a PP who mentioned contracts, legal documents etc. Spoken language and written language are sometimes two different worlds. I have been here for over 30 years now and nobody has a problem with my spoken language. However if I have something "official" to write I ask my hisband (native speaker) to check over it. He speaks very good english but when he writes sometning in english he asks me to check it too.

And reading back my post I'm sure there are plenty of errors in there but oh well....

@TinnitusQueen

The main problem with the societal relaxation of grammar rules is how many youtube ads for Grammarly I now have to sit through. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE.

They're incessant, aren't they?!

@keepingupwiththejones

Daily mail had a headline today referring to the "barmy" weather! I'm still not sure whether it was intentional or not!!

Oh it so has to be.

How patronising OP

@amicissimma

SarahAndQuack, that's interesting because my grandmother used to compare

"I shall drown and nobody will save me"
with
"I will drown and nobody shall save me".

The first indicating that the speaker predicts he is going to drown as nobody wants to save him, and the second that he wants to drown and nobody's going to be allowed to save him. "Shall" indicating future tense and "will" indicating volition.

I find hearing "can" instead of "may" irritating. I think it's partly because it tends to happen when someone is trying to enforce some petty and unneccessary rule. I remember collapsing exhausted into a chair just outside the changing room while my DD tried on the umpteenth outfit, only to be told "You can't sit there". As I was sitting there it was clear that I could (it was possible). And I couldn't actually see any reason why I shouldn't be allowed, either - "may not".

I would love it if Piglet John would start a thread about how to do various domestic plumbing jobs (simple ones, preferably), without being asked.

This is the version I remember too except that there was a twist in that English and Scottish people apparently use (or used to use) use 'shall' and 'will' the opposite way round.

So when the drowning person (who was English) shouted 'I shall drown and nobody will save me' he was predicting that he would drown because no one would save him. Unfortunately the person who heard was Scottish. He thought the drowning Englishman to be using the word 'shall' to show his determination to drown, so didn't jump in to save him.

I have no idea whether it is true that English and Scottish people use the two differently. But that's how I remember my father telling me story (50 years or so ago).

@unacorda I feel like if I were an employer and my employees had to rely on Grammarly to the extent implied is normal in those ads, I'd feel so cheated. There's nothing wrong with making mistakes and using spell check on word or whatever, but some of the errors of syntax in those adverts are surprisingly bad.

@GhostTypeEevee

I've got one that I would like help on. When I was at school years ago I was sure I was taught that you don't use a comma after and but I've noticed in lots of places that people seem to now. Can you explain the rule?

I don't really agree that you should never use a comma either before or after and, but I don't see a good reason for using one at the end of a list.

Just realised I used a comma after "and"!

[quote theveryhungrybutterfly]@1Morewineplease "So some Eastern European's..." 😬[/quote]
Hands up! I failed to check before I posted.. apologies.
It is ironic that my most hated grammar faux pas is, in fact, the dreaded misplaced apostrophe!
I shall wear a hair shirt tonight.

[quote TinnitusQueen]@unacorda I feel like if I were an employer and my employees had to rely on Grammarly to the extent implied is normal in those ads, I'd feel so cheated. There's nothing wrong with making mistakes and using spell check on word or whatever, but some of the errors of syntax in those adverts are surprisingly bad.[/quote]
I agree. Apart from anything else, if you were using it to that extent it would take you an age to get anything done.

Yes it's patronising.

Well it is if you're pointing it out on a MN post. Not so much if you're proof reading someone's CV.

I can't count the number of times autocorrect on my phone has actually made a mistake and done your instead of you're. If someone is typing on MN they are certainly not thinking of their grammar and more likely just wanting a chat, or maybe they're anxious about something. They don't need you pointing it out. I'm sure they already know the difference, they just couldn't be bothered.

If you're doing in a different setting, eg reading over a company wide email before it's sent, the grammar police can and should make an appearance

I do like a mnemonic -

advice- ice Both are things (nouns) that can be given or taken.
advise -is Both are verbs.

Text/texted. So many people use 'text' even when describing a past action. So, I text her yesterday...

If someone is typing on MN they are certainly not thinking of their grammar and more likely just wanting a chat, or maybe they're anxious about something. They don't need you pointing it out.

I'm sure they're not, but this isn't a thread where someone is anxious or wanting a chat, it's a thread about language.

OP I was taught in school (abroad) that you never put a comma before or after ‘and’ because and is connective used instead of comma. It will be like putting two commas. Happy to be corrected.

I don't really agree that you should never use a comma either before or after and, but I don't see a good reason for using one at the end of a list.

The serial, or 'Oxford', comma is sometimes useful for clarity. The section on ambiguity in this wiki page has some examples en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma#Ambiguity

@UnaCorda

Just realised I used a comma after "and"!

But in that case you weren't using 'and' in the normal way so it doesn't count.

@Shimy, you’re talking about the Oxford or serial comma. Some UK English stylesheets demand it, others don’t. I think it’s more likely to be mandatory in American usage.

I always use it, because of the publishers for my academic work. It’s now a habit.

@midsomermurderess

Text/texted. So many people use 'text' even when describing a past action. So, I text her yesterday...

Yes, I don't like this, but apparently it comes from irregular verbs.