To offer some grammar tips to anyone who might want them?

[UnaCorda]

I sincerely hope this doesn't come across as either rude or patronising - it genuinely isn't meant to. It's also not intended as a pedants' thread.

I just thought it might be useful to list a few common mistakes, with an explanation, so that anyone who isn't very confident with their written English might be able to correct errors which, for example, could perhaps count against them in a job application or when used in a professional context.

I'll start with three:

1. "Your" shows that what you're referring to (probably a person or object) belongs to whoever "you" is in the sentence; for example, "Your brother showed me your book". If you mean "you are" you need to write "you're".

2. "Non" is not a word on its own - it is negating something, such as in "non-stick" or "non-committal". ("None-stick" would be incorrect, as would "non of them".) "None" means there aren't any. "How many cakes are left?" "Sorry - none." Or, "How many of the children finished the test?" "None of them."

3. "Alot" is not a word and the same goes for "abit", "infront", "incase" and "inbetween". Instead use "a lot", etc., just like "a little".

Hope I haven't made any mistakes myself...

'Amount' and 'number' - yeah, dying out due to pointless differentiation. Good.

No! Like 'less' and 'fewer'

Countable and non-countable.

And it sounds horrible when you get it wrong

Where I live now I speak a language that is not my "first language" . What I have experienced over the years is that if you can make yourself understood and if you can understand enough of what is said to you, then
forget about the small stuff - understanding is more important that grammatical correctness.

Daily mail had a headline today referring to the "barmy" weather! I'm still not sure whether it was intentional or not!!

@BrownStripePJ

I've always struggled with...

"james and i" vs "james and me"

"me and james" vs "myself and James" etc

Please can you help, but also explain why each one is correct/not correct

(I think the first example in those two examples are correct, but sometimes end up saying "myself" and it never sounds correct in any sentence !)

Thank you in advance

Okay, I'll deal with them one at a time:

James and I - this is correct if you are both the subject of the sentence; for example, "James and I are friends" or "James and I are going to the park".

James and me - this is correct if you are the object, i.e. "Alex gave the book to James and me" or "Fred saw James and me in the park".

Me and James - strictly speaking you should put James first, but this is ok in colloquial speech imo.

Myself and James - incorrect more often than not (and usually used erroneously to sound formal or posh), although you could say something like "I dressed myself and James" or "I gave myself and James a bath" and that would be ok.

The underlying rule is to think what you would say if it was just you without James.

Sounds like you mean well, OP, unlike many pedants on here. You're fighting a losing battle though. People just don't have the headspace for this. It's just not a priority for many people, and your corrections and explanations won't stick in their memories, especially when they are exposed to the wrong versions so often online that they forget which version is right and which is wrong.

I'm a languages teacher and have spent much of my career helping people understand grammar and use it correctly, but most people find that hard enough when they are regularly studying it. A few fleeting corrections on a parenting forum, however well-meaning, are unlikely to fix people's grammar, I'm afraid!

Although personally I don't think using "you're" (and not "your") to mean "you are" is any less important than learning that 3 x 3 = 9, not 6.

Hmm ...not sure that particular grammatical mistake would ever lead to significant miscommunication, whereas getting maths wrong could cause serious problems.

@BrownStripePJ

I've always struggled with...

"james and i" vs "james and me"

"me and james" vs "myself and James" etc

Please can you help, but also explain why each one is correct/not correct

(I think the first example in those two examples are correct, but sometimes end up saying "myself" and it never sounds correct in any sentence !)

Thank you in advance

On the James and me or James and I, just do what you would do if James weren't mentioned.

So

I went to the shop
James and I went to the shop

Not me went to the shop
Not james and me went to the shop.

But,

Who went to the shop?
Me.
James and me. /me and James.(Both correct)

Not I
Not James and I.
Unless you said I did, or James and I did.

The me and James thing comes into play when something is done, given or said to us. Again, do as you would do if James weren't present.

Oh whoops Op cross post sorry

I have much concerns about peoples who believe countable/uncountable is a pointless differentiation.

I find grammar really difficult. I didnt really learn any at school (1980s/90s) but my DDad would always pick me up on things. One of his bug bears was "splitting the infinitive" I dont really even know what that means but I noticed a massive billboard ad where they had written something in that way and I could have imagine my Ddad being appalled! But then thought that if all the people who had anything to do with the ad were my age or younger, possibly none of them would have learned grammar.
My teen DD has to help DS with grammar homework because things like fronted adverbials and subordinate clauses are a foreign language to me.

I haven’t read the whole thread but it’s fair to say that my father who was an editor for a very well known news organisation would be horrified at the poor grasp of written English Language !! I personally cringe at the poor spelling of very common words ...not necessarily on MN !!

It is useful and important. Often a clue that an email purportedly from HMRC or your bank is actually a scam lies in the fact that grammar is wrong.

Grammar is the software of language and mistakes can confuse or slow down the communication. When people rely on language to sign contracts, understand financial decisions, follow instructions it really should be something that is clear to all.

The fashionable approach is to say it does not matter and that in fact education does not matter and yet as soon as someone makes a mess up of something or needs to fill in a lengthy form they need help.

@ErrolTheDragon

Although personally I don't think using "you're" (and not "your") to mean "you are" is any less important than learning that 3 x 3 = 9, not 6.

Hmm ...not sure that particular grammatical mistake would ever lead to significant miscommunication, whereas getting maths wrong could cause serious problems.

Maybe not that particular mistake, but I'm sure there are others that could, in a certain context. There's an Ian McEwan book where the whole denouement is predicated on the misinterpretation of a piece of grammar.

@theveryhungrybutterfly

Also if everyone could learn how to use a semi colon before using one that would be great. Not using one at all is fine, but using one incorrectly is really annoying.

Use to separate two clauses that are related but could also stand alone as sentences (semi colon could be replaced by a full stop). Alternatively, semi colon can be used to separate parts of a list if commas are also used in the list.

I find this confusing; if you could use a comma why use a semi-colon?

Thank you @TinnitusQueen @UnaCorda Those explanations really help

@amicissimma I think you are right (Lord, I nearly used a contraction there!)

@CopperBeeches

It is useful and important. Often a clue that an email purportedly from HMRC or your bank is actually a scam lies in the fact that grammar is wrong.

Grammar is the software of language and mistakes can confuse or slow down the communication. When people rely on language to sign contracts, understand financial decisions, follow instructions it really should be something that is clear to all.

The fashionable approach is to say it does not matter and that in fact education does not matter and yet as soon as someone makes a mess up of something or needs to fill in a lengthy form they need help.

Love this post.

When someone asks you if you "inferred" something and you understand it as "implied", the entire meaning is changed and the answer could well be different.

@IgiveupallthenamesIwantedareg0

Where I live now I speak a language that is not my "first language" . What I have experienced over the years is that if you can make yourself understood and if you can understand enough of what is said to you, then forget about the small stuff - understanding is more important that grammatical correctness.

Of course making yourself understood is the primary objective, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to strive to use language more efficiently, more accurately and more elegantly, especially if you want - or need - to communicate more precisely.

The main problem with the societal relaxation of grammar rules is how many youtube ads for Grammarly I now have to sit through. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE.

@CopperBeeches Yes!! Completely agree with all of that.

@SkinSkin Do you mean why would you use a semi colon in a list of you can use a comma? Well, if it's a simple list then you would just use commas. Sometimes there are so many units in the series that you need to separate them and having multiple commas makes it confusing.

"We went to many different places on our travels: London, Bristol, and Bath; Paris, Toulouse, Marseille; Tokyo and Osaka; Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth."

Otherwise a semi colon doesn't replace a comma at all (or a colon, as many people seem to use it), it replaces a full stop.

*when you can (there, autocorrect has a lot to answer for)

"non of them"

Have you ever seen anyone write this??

I feel your examples of mistakes are a bit contrived. And if the intention is kindly to flag up common mistakes and correct them, they ought actually to be common mistakes.

I'm not quite sure how I feel about this thread ...

[quote theveryhungrybutterfly]@CopperBeeches Yes!! Completely agree with all of that.

@SkinSkin Do you mean why would you use a semi colon in a list of you can use a comma? Well, if it's a simple list then you would just use commas. Sometimes there are so many units in the series that you need to separate them and having multiple commas makes it confusing.

"We went to many different places on our travels: London, Bristol, and Bath; Paris, Toulouse, Marseille; Tokyo and Osaka; Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth."

Otherwise a semi colon doesn't replace a comma at all (or a colon, as many people seem to use it), it replaces a full stop. [/quote]
Why not:

"We went to many different places on our travels: London, Bristol, and Bath, Paris, Toulouse, Marseille, Tokyo and Osaka, Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth."

I have another question!

Let's pretend someone is called "Clements", and he has a dog.

(Clements= his name ends with an S, I am not confusing belonging to here, and there isn't more than one Clements)

When writing this down it would be "Clements' dog".

But when you say this out loud, would it be like "Clementses dog" whereby you say the extra "s".

Or would you just say "Clements dog"

(Hope that makes sense)

I have to use a name similar to this almost every day and it feels odd not to say the extra s