To think the more ridiculous and inconsistent these rules get the less likely people will follow them

[FruitLikeAPeach]

Further to the tightening in northern England today...

AIBU to think the more ridiculous and illogical the rules get the less people will follow them. It seems utter madness to me that you can visit a pub, there is about to be an incentive next week to get people to 'eat out, help out', you can go out to a shop to browse for clothes etc... but apparently sitting in your mum's garden for a cup of tea 2m apart is too dangerous.

I feel like this is just going to get people fed up to the point they just won't bother with the latest lockdown, not as strictly anyway and I can't even blame them anymore.

The people here wining about the rules are doing exactly what they accuse the government of doing. I.e. not taking personal responsibility.

So pubs are re-opened. And? It hasn’t become mandatory to go to one has it? Similarly the beaches. No-one said that everyone had to swarm down to the beach with another half a million people, (quite why anyone would want to, COVID or no COVID is beyond me but there you go...)

For everyone who says “well I don’t see why I can’t.....” the risk of infection is increased.

The evidence is that the infection rates are increasing because of people mixing in larger households. And the reasons for that are fairly logical. If you’re in someone’s house, a place where you have been used to going in the past, then social distancing can easily go out the window even without you realising it, because you’re familiar with the place, and familiar with the people there. That doesn’t mean you go around hugging each other, but suddenly you realise that you’ve been sat on the couch next to someone who you don’t live with, but ordinarily it wouldn’t be a problem. And so that person goes home and spreads the virus to their family, one of whom goes to someone else’s house where they are a familiar visitor and so the cycle continues and the virus ends up back out of control.

As for the “well Dominic Cummings did....” that argument is just completely stupid and ridiculous. No-one said DC was in the right, but seriously, if Dominic Cummings jumped off a cliff when you were told doing so was a bad idea, would you go and do the same? No? Didn’t think so.

People actually seem to want to live in a nanny state, where they are having spelled out to them letter by letter what they can and can’t do. No-one has a sense of personal responsibility any more.

Is there no common sense left?

This is an unprecedented situation. No government knows exactly what to do. They can give us basic guidance based on what they know at any moment in time, but they have to rely on us being sensible and responsible. Putting all the onus on the government to tell us exactly what to do is childish and stupid.

Sadly, too many people are bellyaching because they can't do what THEY want, and looking for any excuse to not even think about what they are doing. So to Hell with other people they bleet!

We know our own unique circumstances. We know that meeting with other people in groups where we can't socially distance is risky behaviour. We also know that avoiding this makes sense, and wearing masks when we can't makes sense too. Just do it.

Agreed op.

In Scotland, we can go to the cinema, go to the pubs, go to restaurants, most people aren't wearing masks in these places and they are packed. But we can't hold an outdoor competition for horse riding? Where we are outdoors, social distancing etc. So keep open all the places that are likely to cause spikes, and are, but stop the actual healthy exercise. I can't even believe the argument of 'but it's for safety', because people are getting hammered in pubs and are needing help from medics afterwards.

It's bloody moronic. All Sturgeon and Johnson have shown is they lack intelligence and are useless at their jobs. If anyone else was this useless at their jobs they'd be fired. If they want stuff to go back to normal, open up everything and be done with it. These stupid rules make no sense anymore and just make our government look less intelligent than a goldfish.

@Chloemol

The point is that if you go to the pub SD is in place, and you have to give your details in case required by track and trace. That’s not the case for visiting in gardens,

The point also is cases are rising, so surely that must mean people are catching it somehow? And it’s risen since the relaxing of lockdown

So if you want to blame anyone, blame those who have not followed the rules and got us back to this

And yes that includes all you on MN with your just use your common sense, yes you can break the rules attitude

No, the point is that if you catch it because you've been in an environment with people who are sufficiently incapacitated that they don't socially distance properly then that's already a problem, whereas if you're on the garden of someone you know, where nobody is too inebriated to socially distance, then there's no reason to think catching it will be an issue.

’holds head in hands’ @QueenofmyPrinces that's exactly what they are doing!!!!!!!! For Pete’s sake, they know through track and trace surveillance exactly whose responsible for these spikes, how they're getting it/where they're picking and when and as this as cases have been rising for a few wees now theyve built up a large set of data....enough to show a pattern.....if there was an outbreak linked to a hairdressers/restaurant they’d have closed that restaurant/hairdressrs and put restrictions on those establishments....track and trace surveillance is doing it's job and the government are doing it's job by reacting to the data and tailoring mesures appropriately, what they're not doing is explaining their working out properly for those of the dense variety who need it spelling out to them....of which there are many in this country. They either need to explain the rationale in no uncertain terms or just put blanket restrictions back in place like they did in Leicester, then there's no arguing and no confusion.

@PiataMaiNei I'm really sorry but you're not getting it....on paper of course gardens where people socially distance and don't share food/drinks should be pretty secure....but that’s on paper, you can't judge everyone by your own standards sadlg.....people haven't been sticking to the guidelines whether that's accidently because they've not properly understood them or wilfully because they've thought f’it it'll be alright...it hasn't been and cases have risen in those areas haven't they.

I think there are varying approaches to the Government and it’s management of Corona:

1. Everything the Government is doing is right, there are no faults or holes in any of their decisions therefore we should trust everything they say and do everything they tell us to without questioning it.

2. They question the reasonings behind the governments actions and and decisions but they still follow the guidelines despite thinking some of them are illogical. They do as they’re told but that doesn’t mean they necessarily agree with it.

3. Those who break some rules because of their own risk assessments but generally comply with the Government’s guidelines.

4. Those who don’t follow the rules out of defiance.

We won’t all think the same, or do the same and we will all think our group is the right one to be in

That’s just life and arguing between ourselves changes nothing.

People will generally act in ways that they think are correct and we just have to hope that the general goodwill and compliance of the majority of the population will win.

There are varying levels of compliance because of government leadership. It's been awful at communicating to the population, leaving it for us all to do our best. Looking at how this government operates, it's likely to be a policy so that we, the population, can be blamed for higher rates of infection.

[quote MrsGoggings85]@PiataMaiNei I'm really sorry but you're not getting it....on paper of course gardens where people socially distance and don't share food/drinks should be pretty secure....but that’s on paper, you can't judge everyone by your own standards sadlg.....people haven't been sticking to the guidelines whether that's accidently because they've not properly understood them or wilfully because they've thought f’it it'll be alright...it hasn't been and cases have risen in those areas haven't they.[/quote]
No, you arent. Because what you're saying is that certain activities that should be done socially distanced aren't safe when they're not. That's obviously true, notwithstanding the issue of outside transmission being less likely generally, but it's true of pubs as well as seeing people outside in private gardens. I wouldn't go within 2 metres of someone in a shop or pub any more than I would in a garden, but quite clearly there are individuals who are.

@Jason118

There are varying levels of compliance because of government leadership. It's been awful at communicating to the population, leaving it for us all to do our best. Looking at how this government operates, it's likely to be a policy so that we, the population, can be blamed for higher rates of infection.

Yes. This, incidentally, is why the people airily dismissing anyone who's been influenced by Cummings as stupid are missing the point. The fact is that this constituency now exists, for better or worse, and that's going to impact on compliance and public health generally.

YANBU. It's just a,power trip thing now. It's funny that all of the places where you can spend money are still open.

[quote MrsGoggings85]@PiataMaiNei I'm really sorry but you're not getting it....on paper of course gardens where people socially distance and don't share food/drinks should be pretty secure....but that’s on paper, you can't judge everyone by your own standards sadlg.....people haven't been sticking to the guidelines whether that's accidently because they've not properly understood them or wilfully because they've thought f’it it'll be alright...it hasn't been and cases have risen in those areas haven't they.[/quote]
On paper people should stay 2m apart and in their own groups in the pub. But they don't and haven't been...You can't judge everyone by your own standards sadly.

People who don't follow the rules in gardens aren't going to follow them in a pub either. Just look at all the pictures online and comments on here of crowded pubs indoor and out.

From what I've seen and heard from others about quite a lot of pubs and bars, I'll be very shocked if they don't have an impact on infection rates over the coming weeks.

I think this vaguery is deliberate. It they keep changing the rules and contradicting one another in interviews, we’ll inevitably bugger up following the guidelines and they can blame us, not their staggering ineptitude.

I honestly believe they don’t care how many of us die. It’s whatever’s expedient for them and their cronies.

The fact that health is devolved and all 4 nations have been doing their own thing does not help to convince people that the leaders are "following the science". More working together and less willy waving would have been a more helpful approach. Why 5 for masks in Scotland but 11 in England? Who if any is following the science?

There are varying levels of compliance because of government leadership No. There have been varying levels of compliance because of human nature. And the government said, often, during the daily briefings, that they were consulting all sorts of behavioural scientists so their guidance would take into consideration the numbers of people who could be expected not to comply. Early on they got much higher compliance than they expected.

To refuse to comply when non compliance evidently costs lives is ridiculous behaviour. To say it's because the political party/individual who said it was someone you don't like or believe is even more ridiculous, especially given the global facts and figures we have on a daily basis.

If you don't comply own it! You choose not to because....

The beach gatherings don't seem to to have caused spikes, apparently. According to various science reports. Being in some pubs has, some not all! That too is being looked at, see if there is a specific reason beyond 'people'. Nobody knows. But there are huge numbers of people across the globe researching the virus. So when you say you are ignoring the advice 'the government' gives you are saying you are ignoring the advice thousands of scientist across the world are compiling.

Then again, everyone is suddenly an expert. A strong side effect of either catching or not catching COVID19 it seems.

I have followed the rules (at huge personal detriment) to the letter from day 1, until now. The logic of a recent rule affecting me is so flawed that I am disregarding it.

Ultimately we’re not stupid, and there’s only so much madness we can take.

And that Minty is owning your decision! What we all should be doing!

I’m the same minty
So I am largely staying home , avoiding crowds and taking precautions with masks and hand washing yada yada

But if I want to socialise outside with a small non bubble group I shall

My hope is that all the extra precautions we are all taking means a trip to Lidl / bus ride won’t infect as , whereas maybe 6 months ago it would have

We shall see hey

Mr Johnson is not useless, he is a criminal and should face criminal charges. Manslaughter by gross neglect.

@CuriousaboutSamphire human nature will always impact, regardless of leadership from government. However, good leadership, with logical, well described procedures will lead to better outcomes. We get no explanation of the logic behind the changes, other than sound bites, three word slogans, and doing your bit rhetoric - we are being treated like children, it's patronising and pathetic.

People are already just doing whatever they feel is right.

Nope. Many people are doing whatever the F they want to. Regardless of anyone else. I've never heard so many excuses for bad behaviour as I've hear throughout this crisis.

The Government thinks everyone has common sense. They don't.

we are being treated like children, it's patronising and pathetic.

Because many of us are behaving like children!

Mr Johnson is not useless, he is a criminal and should face criminal charges. Manslaughter by gross neglect.

Would you suggest the same for everyone who has broken the rules and put others in danger then?

I appreciate that there are differing instructions, some seemingly sensible and some seemingly bonkers. I find it really irritating though when people come out with the Dominic Cummings excuse. if he can do it, then we can...... as other posted have said, take responsibility for your own actions. I am avoiding crowds, pubs, shops, and working from home when I can. If I have to go out, I wear a mask and keep my distance.

You can't whinge about additional lockdowns when you have been one of those not wearing a mask or doing whatever you like.

If i do catch the virus, I am going to be mightily hacked off if it's because people haven't been using common sense.