To think the more ridiculous and inconsistent these rules get the less likely people will follow them

[FruitLikeAPeach]

Further to the tightening in northern England today...

AIBU to think the more ridiculous and illogical the rules get the less people will follow them. It seems utter madness to me that you can visit a pub, there is about to be an incentive next week to get people to 'eat out, help out', you can go out to a shop to browse for clothes etc... but apparently sitting in your mum's garden for a cup of tea 2m apart is too dangerous.

I feel like this is just going to get people fed up to the point they just won't bother with the latest lockdown, not as strictly anyway and I can't even blame them anymore.

Interestingly I just watched the CV update of 31st July on iPlayer and, before the PM's address, Keir Starter was interviewed. He stated he totally agreed with the Govt's actions (in the North of the country), they were science-led and wants everyone to comply with them.

It was timed due to Eid. Bit family groups meeting yesterday.

Is the Gov still encouraging workers back to their offices in the northern hotspots?

Yanbu. People are already just doing whatever they feel is right. The rules are increasingly being seen as a layer of officialdom over the top of your own commoners sense, and nee changes in rules are viewed as something you can take or leave depending on your level of risk tolerance. I don't think Boris has enough respect to get people to follow his lead. Since Dominic Cummings debacle, I don't really listen to the letter of the law, I pick the rules I want to obey. I consider myself pretty sensible (I'm not having a huge Eid party or going to a rave or jostling with the hordes on Bournemouth beach). But I'm not doing everything per the government instructions. I'm surprised anyone is.

Yanbu. Rules that change frequently or seem illogical/unfair or are not enforced do not encourage compliance. Plus the Dominic Cummings effect doesn’t help.

If you are the type of person who will genuinely stay 2m away from family while enjoying a cup of tea in the garden, then frankly you can assess your risks and carry on.

They had to move in an attempt to stop people having close physical contact indoors. Hugging, hand shaking, sharing food from the same dishes. That was already not allowed but had driven an increase.

There was probably some desperate hope that they wouldn’t have to do this, but with rates rising (and they know from track and trace the virus is being passed on from close physical contact with non household members). I would not be planning for a large family Christmas myself.

The Dominic Cummings effect is felt here too - it feels that we can all use our common sense now - no one wants to follow the rules - the PM gave the whole country an out when he support DC's trip. Huge mistake.

I live on one of the hotspots. I'm passed off with the whole thing. As of yesterday I'm now a criminal. I have no choice but to break the restrictions to work. We both work for the NHS in clinical roles and need to use our parents as childcare during the holidays. According to the guidance we can still meet in public outdoor areas for childcare, I guess my 4 year old can spend 12 hours in the park

You can sit 2m apart in a park but not in your own back garden. Ridiculous.

I am another one in t he camp if they could fuck off after Dominic Cummings and then the arrogance of telling us it was time to move on! I do what I think is safe now.
I am sick fed up with this shit show.
the worse for me is the metre plus because people now think that's fine, I keep saying the virus hasn't change and working test and trace when you have to tell people, no you now have to isolate, is fun, it's not Bozo and Cummings they are not happy with it me apparently getting the rules wrong... but but Bozo said 1 meter and pubs are okay so I am alright. I don't have to isolate! No mate you do, and your employer is not my problem.

shops are not enforcing mask wearing, which in my opinion should have come in day one, easy answer to policing it make the shop responsible for it and prosecute them with a fine, I think we would see more compliance then with mask wearing. I have avoided supermarkets in the main because of this and using small businesses and feel this is the way forward for me as even if people there don't wear them it will only be 3 or 4 people I am exposed to not hundreds.

Got challenged in my mask wearing for being a sheeple a few weeks ago, in a shop where I saw only 2 other people wearing them, to which I answered "I am probably the only person who is a registered nurse working 3 jobs dealing with people who have or have had Covid and test and trace, i think you would wear one too if you did"

I absolutely agree we need to keep the economy going but the rules are stupid and not practical. People rely on relatives for childcare to work , during lockdown it was key workers but now it's everyone . It's the school holidays so of course we need relatives to help with childcare. If my mum wants to come round and have a cup of tea she can come round too . so yes I will be breaking the rules .

So you can no longer visit family and stay 2m apart but can be less than 2m apart from strangers in the pub?

Bonkers.

Just hold family meet ups in the pub.

I’m Channel Islands and we’ve opened our borders up. We’ve been told not to visit Brittany but a lot of French day trippers are coming over and not being tested.

I am having trouble knowing what the rules are, they change on a whim.

I went to hospital twice last week, people in there without masks or lifting the masks to shout across the 2 metre distance. I know some are exempt but apparently enforcing masks is not possible which is why some shops and supermarkets are not trying.

Yesterday I was puzzled why an old message popped up on my phone about facials, because we can have them right? And yet with less than 24 hours to go Boris changes the rules. But you can go to the pub have a few and kiss the face off a stranger, if you want to.

My friend, a midwife who has worked every day since lockdown booked a 2 night break in Spain to see her daughter and grandchild, because it was deemed safe, mid air the quarantine rules changed. She has been far more exposed for the 100+ days she has been in work.

My aunt lives in Spain but flew here 23rd July so no self quarantine.

I am fortunate, I can work from home every day, I have my food shopping delivered, Amazon prime does the rest and I’m choosing not to go to the pub. On the flip side this means I am living in some sort of bubble including choosing which friends and family I see.

So on the rare occasion I do venture out I am surprised how many people are not following any rules. But I am also aware that I am confused by the rules. It feels like the sand is continuously shifting under my feet.

Boris and the advice we are given has been ambiguous throughout which has added scepticism and of course we witness the double standards.

Yes I think people will give up trying to follow the rules through frustration, and others will be breaking the rules without realising change has occurred.

I completely agree @FruitLikeAPeach Part of the issue I have is also that the media reports on events happening which are against the rules but doesn't state that. The royal wedding broke all the rules. They had a reception which according to The Mirror 'only' 14 friends attended plus family. Weddings were allowed outdoors up to 30 at the time but other rules still stood for the 'reception' as max of 6 from different households or 2 households of up to a max of 30 people. I didn't see one comment anywhere on the wedding breaking the rules. How on earth are the general population supposed to know what the rules are when events like this are in the public eye and for those who do know the rules why should they follow them?

Lets not forget the total contradiction of 'eat out to help out' but the tv ads (and Boris) exhorting us all to lose weight.
Everything seems rather knee jerk at the moment - masks included. The time when they would have been really useful (March, April, May) has gone. It's too little too late.

Presumably the people from these hot spots are still allowed to go on their hols to Cornwall etc, even if they're taking their mum with them?

I'm also a big rule follower and we've had recent news re DH's health that means I'm doubly concerned now but I'm struggling to know what the right thing to do is now.

People have been berated right through, here and elsewhere, for not being able to think for themselves but why would anyone using that famous common sense choose the pub over a cuppa in their parents' garden?

You're quite right OP. I'm in an affected area, as are a lot of my family, and we have made the communal decision that we will continue to meet in each other's gardens. Which we can do whilst staying 2 metres apart and in several cases there are outside toilets available too so no need to go in the house. The government already lacked credibility, but the idea that it's too risky to meet in gardens yet fine to be in pubs where there are going to be people too drunk to social distance is a new low, and far too stupid to deserve my compliance.

I think one problem is that people are thinking about how pubs used to be and indeed it would make no sense to allow that. However, most open pubs are a world away from that atm. I've only been once, but tables were well spread, there was a one way system for the loo and separate entrance and exit doors, you can only sit at your booked table, which is for a maximum of six and not mingle, drinks ordered by app and delivered to the end of your table, hand sanitizer everywhere.Not perfect by any means but genuinely far more socially distanced than "Christmas" with a large extended family group.

whilst strangers all gather together in a restaurant or pub down the road

Maybe it's different in city pubs, but round my way it's strict table service only and no wandering about save for going to the lav. Staff are wearing masks or visors and all the tables are very spread out. I saw one man go over to chat to some people at a different table, and a member of staff reminded him, very politely, about social distancing and asked him to go back to his seat.

And at both the pubs we've visited, you have to give your contact details on arrival in case anyone present later gets ill. It's not possible to exercise that degree of control at someone's home or in a public open space like a beach or a park.

So I do get why the two things are treated differently. Having said that, it's MIL's birthday tomorrow and it's very sad that she won't be able to have all her children and grandchildren to visit. At 82, there may not be many more chances.

Most open pubs? You can't possibly know that. You've been to one that was socially distanced, that's all. Meanwhile, senior members of the police have said drunk people don't socially distance. And the new rules would require a lot from hospitality staff inside the affected area to enforce.

Interesting photo of Manchester City Centre last night at the link below. I wonder if all these people live together?

mobile.twitter.com/HannahAlOthman/status/1289307245520576512

@Grottyfeet

I think one problem is that people are thinking about how pubs used to be and indeed it would make no sense to allow that. However, most open pubs are a world away from that atm. I've only been once, but tables were well spread, there was a one way system for the loo and separate entrance and exit doors, you can only sit at your booked table, which is for a maximum of six and not mingle, drinks ordered by app and delivered to the end of your table, hand sanitizer everywhere.Not perfect by any means but genuinely far more socially distanced than "Christmas" with a large extended family group.

I've been to a few pubs and they are not all like that. I could see an effort being made by the publican but there were so many misunderstood rules it was a joke! The clipboard and pen being passed around the pub to obtain names and addresses - how many people touched those two items - they were never cleaned! The bar tender who thought wearing leather fingerless gloves was another example of a dangerous practice. The lack of furniture cleaning, I could go on!

I live in one of the areas mentioned and was driving around yesterday on errands and I also live in between 3 pubs. Pub gardens, McDonald’s, Costa, pretty much every eating establishment was absolutely heaving yesterday both inside (were I could see in the windows) and outside - disgusting really. It was clear that some of the groups of people on one table were not from one household (unless most households consist of 8-12 people ) and as the day progressed people were getting evermore drunk and social distancing wasn’t happening at all. And no one was policing it/supervising it.

Our local hairdresser has each chair full from morning until 8/9pm at night - no social distancing. Each chair occupied plus people from multiple households sat next to each other waiting on sofas. Stylists either not wearing or incorrectly wearing PPE (ie visor not covering mouth or mask not covering nose).

Places of worship in our town very inconsistent. All the local Catholic Churches bar one, very strict with one household per bench, hands need to be sanitised, no collections, no singing, outdoor confessions, face masks mandatory etc. Yet the busiest Catholic Church in the centre of the town c900 people isn’t bothering to follow the guidelines and has people singing, collection baskets being passed hand to hand, at least half a dozen households per bench, people standing round congregated and chatting before and after the services, no test and trace as other churches are doing. A Shielding relative was due to go back to their local independent “happy clappy” Church this weekend but I stopped them when I found out it was a tiny room (scout hut) where it was impossible to social distance and the entire room would be singing and dancing around. The research on singing in confined spaces is really worrying. A group of 100 vulnerable elderly people in a scout hut all singing and moving around sounds like a massive risk.

Yet...a cup of tea in Granny’s back yard is what has been banned? Really?

Wrong choices.

I've eaten out twice and to a pub non food place once .
The eating out fine , ordered on the app or waitress distancing away from others and track and trace on app too .
The pub different you write you details on a piece of paper the same everyone used . People sat together no distancing so multiple households , only thing was you couldn't move chairs . I'm not going to a pub again well that particular one anyway for a while . I understand it's difficult for that industry as my job is impacted in the hospitality trade but most are doing it properly some not so .

"It’s fine for people to sit on a confined plane, to go to the pub, to go to restaurants and to go to beaches, but you can’t sit in your mom’s garden because it’s too risky?"

It's about spending money

Your mum should set up a little box by her gate where you pay £1 to get in
Then when she comes to visit you, you do the same
So you are both (mad) micro businesses
Money circulates and BJ is happy

YANBU. People were barely following rules as is.

I still don't feel 100% comfortable about eating in pubs or restaurants.