To think the more ridiculous and inconsistent these rules get the less likely people will follow them

[FruitLikeAPeach]

Further to the tightening in northern England today...

AIBU to think the more ridiculous and illogical the rules get the less people will follow them. It seems utter madness to me that you can visit a pub, there is about to be an incentive next week to get people to 'eat out, help out', you can go out to a shop to browse for clothes etc... but apparently sitting in your mum's garden for a cup of tea 2m apart is too dangerous.

I feel like this is just going to get people fed up to the point they just won't bother with the latest lockdown, not as strictly anyway and I can't even blame them anymore.

Whatever particles of logic people may feel they can glean from it, the fact remains that it's perfectly possible to socialise safely on private gardens and, at the same time, some of the other things we are being encouraged to do carry risk. People know this. They identify the innate ridiculousness of the situation, hence the Auntie Pat's conservatory and card reader tweets currently going viral

Posted too soon there... and they simply aren't going to adhere to the rules in that situation. I'm not going to. I'll give up seeing people in houses for now, as the cases are rising. That's reasonable
But I will not observe any rule preventing me from sitting entirely safely on private property, two metres away from anyone else, and I'd have to be very unlucky to be penalised for it. There are going to be a great many like me, because there is a limit to what people are going to tolerate from a government who simply don't have the credibility at this point.

YANBU. I'm in one of the areas where we're unable to be inside each others homes, even though the cases in my particular town are falling.

I don't believe for a second they have gathered any reliable evidence to suggest the rise in cases in some areas is due to people not socially distancing indoors. Unless Matt Hancock has been peaking through people's windows I don't see how he could make such a statement on twitter that quite frankly made us Northerners seem thick for not following the rules. They will never admit it but it was 100% down to the Eid celebrations being the following day.

I was due to meet my family on Thursday night socially distanced inside their home, due to circumstances we had to rearrange for Friday, and then 10pm Thursday found out that it would then be illegal. Nothing changed for me during those 24 hours, I didn't come into close contact with anybody else, and I have absolutely no shame in saying we broke the law on Friday by doing the exact same thing we would have been doing legally the night before.

I agree they needed from the start to be very clear without all the wishy washy you can do this but not that

But it’s now pointless things changed when Boris Johnson stood by his most senior advisor Who not only ignored the guidelines he had participated in writing up but then fabricated ridiculous stories to cover up his actions

This will come back to haunt them over and over again

I'm not inclined to take their word for it either. Have we seen any evidence of the major source of transmission yet?

YABU.

Fed up now with people whining 'why can't I do x when I can do y'. This is a pandemic. It's complicated. We need to prevent the spread going exponential again as it did in March/April without completely giving up on life. That means reacting to each spike (and there will be many) with targeted measures.

Data shows most transmission in hotspots has been in households. Therefore temporary restrictions have been placed on households. Yes of course Eid is a factor and these measures will protect members of the Muslim community at a moment when cases were suddenly growing. That's a good thing.

Pubs, restaurants etc also carry risk but are not driving spread as per the data. They also provide employment. So for now they stay open.

If you want to see your mum in her garden at 2m distance just do so. Nobody is going to be punished for that. Just use your common sense. The problem is large-ish gatherings where social distancing is not observed and people share food, surfaces, toilets and indoor space. Get those under control, reduce the spread and the restrictions will be lifted.

It all requires a little engagement and thought but it's not rocket science.

You are in no place to say that nobody is going to be punished for seeing relatives in gardens. While I too would encourage people to do that, and think the chances of any single individual being fined are low, the fact remains that we're now told it will be illegal. This means none of us are in any place to give assurances that nobody at all will be punished.

@labyrinthloafer

Stop saying 'certain communities' if you want to blame a section of the British population just say clearly who you blame.

Exactly.

@RandomTree

I don't understand? You are allowed sit in your mum's garden 2m apart.

Not in Greater Manchester and other parts of the NW you aren't!

It still remains the case though, that for everybody, you shouldn't have more than one family in your house, or six people in your garden etc etc. The changes, I am sure, were introduced due to rising infection rates, and local concern that Eid would precipitate non-adherence to what is already in force. You have to screw down more tightly than you expect to be adhered to, in order to, hopefully, have a middle ground.

I've followed the rules, I've not seen friends family in months.

Now this. Though I'm in lockdown cases are falling here, but being lumped in with surroundings areas.

It's pparently too dangerous for me to even sit in the garden with my friends or family, but I'm very welcome to get pissed indoors with a load of random people.

I had little respect for the Gov't, but after Dominuc Cummings was apparently justified with the Barnard Castle trip, they can get fucked frankly. The hypocrisy stinks.

@Baaaahhhhh

It still remains the case though, that for everybody, you shouldn't have more than one family in your house, or six people in your garden etc etc. The changes, I am sure, were introduced due to rising infection rates, and local concern that Eid would precipitate non-adherence to what is already in force. You have to screw down more tightly than you expect to be adhered to, in order to, hopefully, have a middle ground.

This is one possibility. You also need to do it whilst retaining enough credibility that you aren't ignored entirely. It's not an easy middle ground to find and we do not have the luxury of a competent government in charge.

I live in Greater Manchester. My immediate area does not have a high Muslim population.
I have noticed loads of people not being sensible with the rules. This is mainly:
Groups of teenagers out and about who are not socially distancing at all.
People in shops ( of all ages) not socially distancing and taking the whole family shopping instead of one person going.
Large meet ups in gardens where people are not socially distancing.
People wearing masks under their nose in shops and on public transport ( mainly older people).
Parents chatting in playgrounds without social distancing and not getting their children to socially distance either.
All these things will have increased Covid spread and will have played a part causing the increase of cases here
It really isn't a "Muslim problem" although I can see that a major festival may have encouraged some Muslims to get closer to more family members than the rules allow!

Could you not meet your mum in the pub? In fact, have a complete family reunion in the pub.

@Jason118

Could you not meet your mum in the pub? In fact, have a complete family reunion in the pub.

If living in an affected area, you're not supposed to. In practice this is not enforceable, especially as people will just travel outside.

I can see why people think the underlying logic being used is racist - I'm inclined to agree - but I find it baffling that people say there's no logic at all. They're targeting South Asian communities and, on average, these aren't communities that heavily use the pub. There's no evidence that pubs are fuelling the rise in cases in these areas, and there is evidence that it's being fuelled from people meeting in private households. Maybe they should have closed pubs to give more of an appearance of fairness and to conceal who was being targeted more, but that would have been the reason for doing it, not because it made more logical sense.

I walked past a barbers in town today.... man in there having a wet shave. Obviously he wasn’t wearing a mask.

My eyebrow appointment next week has been cancelled as beauticians are not allowed to do anything on the face, even if the customer wears a mask.

Very ill thought out rules!

YANBU OP - I think the first page of this thread highlights the different interpretations of the rules quite well, they are changing so fast it's hard to keep up! Can't meet in the garden but can go on holiday or to the pub/restaurant.

Agree with the PPs that have pointed out that Boris wanting to keep Dominic C in his job fatally wounded the supply of goodwill to keep the rules.

It will be interesting if they do start closing/limiting some things to get schools open. Without the income the Government gets from taxation through business, they will be stuffed though!

Even in a pub you're only supposed to be "with" one other household, even in the non hot spot areas, although this message does seem to have been lost.

We're absolutely still feeling the effect of the Cummings situation. The defences did so much to damage trust.

@EducatingArti
agree completely, I'm in GM and possibly same place as you. Not a significant BAME population here. Rather, it's moving around the 18-25 age group.

If you're in the pub, what difference does it make who the other pub goers are, family or otherwise?

I can see why people think the underlying logic being used is racist Sadly that's how any kind of profiling is seen these days, even health profiling. So curtailing Eid becomes a racist issue and identifying those attending/running some of the illegal street/music parties does too!

BAME communities are at more risk. On one hand we have a lot of people demanding answers, being quite accusatory, as if anyone in the government, or society as a whole, designed the virus. On the other we have a lot of BAME centred activities, including EId, that need to be adressed.

The choices are: let Eid go ahead as usual, do nothing about the mass gatherings, street parties, music raves etc etc, or

Do something to curtail all such mass gatherings, especially in areas with additional lockdown measures.

Both choices will bring accusations of racism, one will help reduce BAME infection and death rates.

Given the libertarian approach the government has taken so far, mostly guidelines and trusting us to do what is right, a strict lockdown on the eve of Eid, the decision taken so late, suggests a long meeting, series of meetings with a lot of contradicting opinions.

I'm not sure there was anything any government could do that would not bring cries of racism before or after Eid.

I'm sorry but reading some of these posts I can see exactly why Greater Manchester is on lockdown. Can you not just follow the rules? To say you have no shame about breaking them is disgraceful.

The government should lead by example

They haven’t and to add to that pathetic reasonings, no lies why

Of course many don’t feel they need to since the Dominic Cummings storey broke attitudes changed