To think this customer is unreasonable?

[WhataBelta]

DH and I own a business selling a product. As with lots of branded products, it has our logo on it. These are products that take a lot of time and effort to make and as such, can be quite expensive.

As we offer free personalisations, we ask customers to leave notes with any requests when they checkout on our website.

A customer ordered a large number and left a note to say they didn't want any engraving. No problem.

We sent them out with just the logo on and no personalisation.

The customer has now come back and said he didn't want the logo on as per his no engraving request and wants us to redo them or refund.

AIBU to think you can't expect a brand to take their logo off products for you?! I would never order from a brand and expect them to send me something blank without their logo/name on if it's obvious they put it on everything.

Are we unreasonable to say no? It makes me wonder why, perhaps they wanted to sell them on as their own or something similar. They say it's because they are gifts and they want them blank but I kind of think well tough, you've bought a very clearly branded product

"They bought 13 (which to us is a large number as we only usually sell directly to customers who buy maybe one or two at a time).

The products are all over £100 each."

"We may be able to sell them on eventually although it will likely take a while as they are a type of product we don't do all that often."

I would NOT be offering a refund. This faux-customer ordered 13 expensive handmade items. If your turnover on this item is so small, I presume you do not keep this large a stock of them so I'm also presuming that you made them to fill this order. And that if you took them back, they'd be sitting in stock for a considerable length of time, unsold, effectively tying up money.

There is no legal right to a refund unless the items were faulty, it would be a goodwill refund only and he does not deserve your good will. How in God's name he expected you to not brand your work, when every picture on the website showed the logo in situ, is beyond me.

Doesn't he have a right to return anyway under consumer law as it's an online order and not personalised? Therefore, a generic product that you can take back into stock.

@orangenasturtium

YANBU

But does the website show images of personalised items that have both the branding and the personalisation visible in the same photo? If they are both stamped I can see how he might possibly have thought the brand stamp was to illustrate personalisation using your company name as an example.

Hence a disclaimer that the images are not definitive, but indicative ....

@WhereYouLeftIt
"There is no legal right to a refund unless the items were faulty, "

Not true if it's an online order.

Yes @airbags the customer does have a right to a refund for any reason under distance selling regulations. This is only dependent on how long ago they received the items, I believe the maximum term is 28 days although I could be wrong about that part. It can be for any reason including just a change of mind, unfortunately, and I say it's unfortunate only for small business owners such as OP, I don't really think it's any skin off of Amazon's nose for example.

If that time has elapsed, and OP still offers a refund, then that would very much be a goodwill gesture. The items also have to be in saleable condition, but not necessarily in their original packaging. It is okay for OP to ask for them to be returned in the packaging though, just not to withhold a refund if this is ignored.

I forgot to mention, these rules exist as customers aren't able to see the items before they commit to buying them. In this case, the customer could easily argue that he wouldn't have bought them had he seen the logo stamp, so there's absolutely no good that could come from trying to get around the distance selling policies sadly.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

Do you think he's hoping that you will offer to refund (say) 50% of the cost, and let him still keep the items?

I bet it is this

@nowlook

Agreed *@ProfessorSlocombe* I think the OP also said that he was out of time (assuming he was made aware of the cooling off period) even if a consumer.

Exactly.

I haven't made it through the whole thread sorry, but don't refund him!!
I'd just say: sorry but we do not offer an option to remove our logo, only to add personalisation, so we are unable to refund you. Thank you for your custom

He's never going to order from you again anyway so why lose £1300 for him?

If they're gifts then the logo shouldn't be a problem, that's part of the product. I also think he wanted to put his own brand on them and resell.

Send him packing in a nice way.

They asked for no engraving and you supplied a product with engraving. YABU.

I hate logos - but they did order no engraving, rather than no logo. Or is it an engraved logo?
Anyway, you've got the money so just refuse the refund. They're not likely to order from you again whatever you do.

You know your business better than anyone OP.....is this a common place request (to have no logo?) ....if it’s odd, then I’d trust your instincts....this person bought off you with the intention of probably selling the items on and passing them off as their own work. Tough shit! They shouldn’t have done it. Tell them your suspicions, dig in, don’t refund and let them do their worst....they’d loose the case in a small claims court anyway; no logo is different to no personalisation. The only thing I think you need to be clear on is that your marketing materials did display the logo, so people know and can clearly see what they are getting.

His only recourse would likely be bad reviews or word of mouth, consider whether that’s worth £1300. I hope you don’t refund him, as this is surely a form of Darwinism.

Keep your spirits up OP, I'm sure it'll all level out eventually.

What did you tell him in the end?

@pepperycinnamon

They asked for no engraving and you supplied a product with engraving. YABU.

Since when was a company logo considered personalisation or engraving

He wants to sell them on as his own work. I would refuse a refund as I'm sure he's just trying it on. He knows perfectly well the difference between branding and peronalisation, and doesn't have a leg to stand on.

He's a big bloody CF.

You have a right to defend your intellectual property with the displaying of a logo - if this was clear on the website!

You said it will take time to sell these items and they cannot now be personalised.

I think you need to negotiate with him. Perhaps you could go down the route of the returns window is now closed. But you are prepared to offer him some concessions. He can either return the items by x date in perfect and resalable condition with all packaging intact etc and you will charge a 30% restocking fee (up to you if you explain more than this) or as a good will gesture, you will give him a 10% refund and he can keep the complete order.

As you would then have the 13 items, you can then sell them items on a 25% off while stocks last promotional sale to get rid of them ASAP thus eliminating the need of stocking long term.

I meant to add. You really shouldn’t have to do either. You could simply tell him to eff off. But it seems you feel as though you do need to....

How do posters suggest OP refuses a refund though? That doesn't make sense.

I would refund but not redo them. It would be cheapening your brand. Big companies would never do it so you shouldn't.

If I own a product by, say, Poole pottery (I have a few) I tell people and show them the brand. This is what you aspire to. (I know Poole pottery isn't particularly fancy, it's more sentimental value!)

If he wants something unbranded he can go elsewhere or try to do it himself! CF.

But I would also make it clear on your website that all products have the company logo/brand on them, other engravings are discretionary.

Hi @WhataBelta

If your T&Cs claim they can only have a refund if damaged or faulty, then I would stand firm. They got what they ordered and why should you lose out (until you are able to resell them all) in the meantime?

If you allow returns, then yes, you would have to accept the return.

Under no circumstance should you redo them without your logo - could you imagine asking Apple for a phone without their branding?! some people are unbelievable. They can go elsewhere if they want an item without branding, they'll be hard pressed to find this.

If the customer wanted no branding, they should have used their brain and contacted you before to ask if you offer this, I can't imagine anyone putting "no engraving" and thinking they will receive a logo-less item

If you can though, I wouldn't accept the returns (again, depending on T&Cs) as they have arrived as stated. If you use anything like Etsy and there is a "report customer" option, I think you should also message them to tell them what happened, in case of multiple offences. It may be an honest mistake but if the customer repeatedly does things like this, it could cause someone to be severely out of pocket and they would appreciate the heads up.

I would not give him a refund, he is being ridiculous, of course your logo is on it

Since when was a company logo considered personalisation or engraving

When it's engraved onto the product, obviously. He asked for no engraving.

@WhatCFeryIsThis It’s out of the 14 day return window, with proof that he got them the next day. That’s on him.

“Dear Mr. CF,

I am so sorry to hear you are less than satisfied with our product. As I hope you can tell, we pride ourselves on the quality of our workmanship and customer service. As such, we do offer a 14 day return policy on non-personalized items. Could you please confirm the date you ordered, as our system has this down as D/M/Y?”

Then when he writes back with a day more than 14 days ago, you say that’s a shame, send a copy of the T&Cs, hope he can enjoy the products and send a 15% off voucher for future purchases.