To think this customer is unreasonable?

[WhataBelta]

DH and I own a business selling a product. As with lots of branded products, it has our logo on it. These are products that take a lot of time and effort to make and as such, can be quite expensive.

As we offer free personalisations, we ask customers to leave notes with any requests when they checkout on our website.

A customer ordered a large number and left a note to say they didn't want any engraving. No problem.

We sent them out with just the logo on and no personalisation.

The customer has now come back and said he didn't want the logo on as per his no engraving request and wants us to redo them or refund.

AIBU to think you can't expect a brand to take their logo off products for you?! I would never order from a brand and expect them to send me something blank without their logo/name on if it's obvious they put it on everything.

Are we unreasonable to say no? It makes me wonder why, perhaps they wanted to sell them on as their own or something similar. They say it's because they are gifts and they want them blank but I kind of think well tough, you've bought a very clearly branded product

You have a CF on your hands, OP.

God knows what he was planning to do with them but I agree you are probably right.

I would call him out, in a way that assumes there has been a genuine misunderstanding, with a message that runs along the lines of it is not possible to purchase unbranded items from you, as you do not offer 'B2B' sales, just direct to the consumer.

See if that shames him.

I think I wouldn't bother to refund unless you actually want the items BACK to prevent him from selling on.

Just reply and say “I’m sorry you’re not happy, we cannot redo the items without the logo. The engraving referred to personalisation.

I appreciate that you may not be happy with this solution, therefore I would be happy to give you a full refund upon receipt back of the item is as new. Please send these by recorded deliveryTo ensure that they arrive.

If you do not wish to return them, I will be unable to offer you a refund.“

Then I would personally put those up on your website as a special offer without personalisation at a five or 10% discount. At least it will make your stock move quicker.

Of course keep your eye that the Cf does not then buy them all again at the discounted rate!

And who knows - if you offer good customer service and a full refund, he might suddenly decide that actually he doesn't mind the logo so much and just keep them.

Yanbu

Just refund and explain you don’t make them unbranded.

I bet once he realises he's hot to return them he changes his mind,

Bulk gifts

A consumer. They said it was for gifts. They bought 13 (which to us is a large number as we only usually sell directly to customers who buy maybe one or two at a time).

You don't change a cat into a dog by calling it a dog.

13 items at £100+ each is walking like a duck - and quacking.

It's more a commercial than a legal decision, but I'd just take the items back and forget the sale. In life there are some customers who will only every cost you money. Unless they're bringing their entire tennis club in as customers and cover the cost of their business, it's best to point them to a competitor, and let them lose the money.

It depends on the product. Whilst some high value brands put their logo on their product, it’s not a universal thing. In many cases the logo is a significant part of the value of the product. A handbag without the Chanel logo is just a leather handbag. Worth a fraction of the label price.

You might want to consider whether your stamp is added value to the product from the customers perspective. If it doesn’t mean anything to them it’s an unnecessary addition.

Did he request a discount for ordering in bulk? If he did, that for me would be another clue that he intends to sell them on.

You didn't do anything wrong. He was unreasonable.

However, knowing how business actually work compared to how they should work, I would absolutely offer a refund following a full return (undamaged), and I actually WOULD then amend the personalisation option to mention that your branding/logo will not be optional on the product.

Of course you shouldn't have to do that. But McDonalds shouldn't have to say their coffees 'may be hot'. Crazy customers often create interesting changes to how businesses are run.

Oh and also, the customer in particular is a type of tool.

I couldn't resist

I would just refund and take it as a lesson learned regarding your terms and conditions.

I think it’s crossed wires partly and I can see both sides really.

You don’t want them to leave a negative review on social media etc as that seems to be the done thing. I feel sorry for business owners

Personal messages are optional

Company branding is not

Only an idiot would think that asking for no personalisation means no logo either.

If I want to buy a Rolex watch I can have the back engraved with a message for the recipient. If I choose not to have anything engraved it doesnt stop being a Rolex and I dont get to have it without the Rolex branding.

I would tell the customer that company branding is not an optional personalisation and so you will not be replacing his order with unbranded items, but if he returns them all then, whilst he is out of the 14 day returns window, as a goodwill gesture you are willing to refund his order (minus any processing fees that you have incurred).

Unreasonable customer. But should br able to return them for a refund. Shipping of return at customer expense of course.

I would assume that any product will come with some form of logo, I just bought some trainers and I could have had the option of personalisation, I opted out, but I still assumed that Adidas would keep there logo on the shoe.

However, if your logo is initials i.e AB it could look like personalisation IYSWIM. If your concerned he’s going to resell if you take your logo of, I think your within your rights to say along the lines of ‘despite this being out of the 14 day cooling off period, we will on this occasion refund the item once we have received it back in a resell-able condition but all our products come with our logo on’ then go on to offer personalisation/engraving on the item if he would prefer or just dig your heels in, but I guess that depends on if you want the negative feedback/potential chargeback via his bank etc.

Maybe update your site to confirm all items include your logo of ‘XYZ’ regardless of personalisation.

The product you sell is a tool which incorporates your company logo. That's an intrinsic part of the base product.

That's what he bought.

The personalisation element is something customers can choose as an optional add-on to the base product.

You could say something like:

"Dear [ ],

Thanks for your call/email. To explain further:

• The company logo is an integral part of our product (as shown on the website pictures);

-We apply the logo stamp to the product in-line during our manufacturing process and cannot change that without completely reconfiguring how our production line is set up; -Not only would reconfiguration be costly and time-consuming, we would also lose the opportunity to make it clear to anyone who sees our product that the item is a protected design made by us; -We also offer customers the opportunity to personalise our product (adding names, by way of example) because we recognise that our items are often bought as gifts;

It's quite difficult for us to see how our product has become unsuitable for your purposes. You bought our product and we supplied it without personalisation, as requested.

As a small independent business, your order was relatively large for us and it could take us time to find other customers for that particular product.

All that said, we can see that there has been a misunderstanding and have no desire to enter into a dispute with you.

[Would you consider accepting a [10%] discount on the value of your order or, alternatively, accepting a [90%] refund provided the goods are returned in their original condition? That would go some way to help with our additional working capital while we sell through the products].

Many thanks etc etc.

And if he's still difficult, give the full refund once the products have been returned.

Sounds like he wants to sell it on as his own product! I would never take my brand off any product I made. Just offer him a refund when he's returned them.

If you aren't going to get repeat business then I'd just say no.

No engraving would not include the companies logo, surely? Very cheeky. Definitely don't make any without the logo for them

He's a CF, as many people have pointed out, if it's a branded product you cannot expect them not to put the logo on.

I would go with the email Nowlook has written, says it all perfectly and he'd be hard pushed to ague with that.

They’re being ridiculous, you wouldn’t lets say for instance buy a pair of nike trainers but ask them to remove the logo.

The customer said that they didn’t want any engraving which you adhered to, the logo would of been on the product anyway, it would of been something that you couldn’t remove.

Customer should of said at the time of ordering “can the product not have the logo on?” to which you would of replied “no sorry thats part of the product” so he wouldn’t of ordered it.

Sorry OP - I see he's said it's for a gift but I would still call him out anyway.

Ouch at having to refund £1300! Of course he wasn’t giving 13 as gifts and was going to pass them as his own.

Customer is being unreasonable. There u I s a definite difference between engraving and branding. For the sake of customer relations I’d offer a refund regardless of timescale but I wouldn’t remove the branding. Sometimes I feel sorry for genuinely decent retailers at the mercy of unfair reviews. Some people you just can’t please however hard you try.

If he had been particularly bothered, he wouldn't have waited until the refund window had closed before contacting you. You could just outright refuse - after all, who but a complete idiot would expect a company to leave their branding off their product? Alternatively, you could agree to remake without the logo, but naturally this will incur extra costs as it will require a major change in the manufacturing process and the replacemenyitems will cost £199 each.

I'm intrigued to know what the tools are now!