AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/28/unions-call-for-teachers-in-england-to-be-able-to-wear-face-masks

Given that they have to be worn almost everywhere else indoors by over 11s it would be the right thing to do. Adults working in schools have as much right to be protected as bus drivers and shop workers.

So AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

Who is hassling parents over masks?

But the unions have not blocked the reopening of schools. Where is the evidence of that?

So when there's an outbreak in a school is a teacher always patient zero and the only adult infected?

Over 10s transmit as much as adults except not in school buildings?

I just don’t see where all the information about blocking schools reopening is coming from.

Schools are following the guidelines set out by government and dfe. The next set of guidelines come out in a couple of weeks.

@RainyWinter
There is no evidence of any teacher anywhere in the world catching Coronavirus from students.

No data is being collected on the person or type of person someone catches the virus from. This is like saying that there's no evidence that delivery workers pass it on to homeowners so they shouldn't leave parcels on the doorstep. It's like saying there's no data to show that nurses pass the virus on to their families so they shouldn't bother showering or washing clothes when they get in.

It's a complete strawman argument and that has been explained multiple times on this thread.

I’ve taken the bait.

Who is this US in usforthem? How do you get to call yourself that, implying your valiant sacrifice for children when actually it is us the teachers who you want sacrificed so a) you have free full time childcare and b) your little darlings don’t have to wear a mask in the name of protecting their community?

It’s the most hypocritical name ever unless you’re all volunteering to run schools.

It’s like me starting a campaign called us for them lobbying for all mc office workers currently wfh to get back on rammed public transport to travel to work in the city and insisting they not be allowed a face mask or any sd when I’m not even an office worker.

In what way are you part of the US who’ll actually be taking the unnecessary risks you demand?

@netflixismysidehustle

So when there's an outbreak in a school is a teacher always patient zero and the only adult infected?

Over 10s transmit as much as adults except not in school buildings?

I think you'll find due the magic bubble system that children will be unable to transmit the virus on school grounds

I think that certain papers like to make out that unions asking for details or pointing out problems as being difficult.

They choose to ignore that the guidance is problematic (especially for secondary schools ) and if they are written with heads then it's likely to have less "mistakes" that need to be fixed in countless updates. Unbelievable that there was an update to the guidance the day before 2nd June reopening.

Everybody agrees that schools should reopen but the real problem is that the guidance is written by people who have clearly not been in a classroom since they were at school.

Honestly such fucking entitlement that you’re ramming into the next generation too. People who think their own personal discomfort trumps other people’s basic safety and workers rights during a pandemic.

I find it gobsmacking.

@StaffAssociationRepresentative

I just don’t see where all the information about blocking schools reopening is coming from.

Schools are following the guidelines set out by government and dfe. The next set of guidelines come out in a couple of weeks.

Absolutely!

My school reopened to the specific year groups when we were told to. We also opened to all year groups with a part time model when the Government said they wanted all students in before the end of the year. We will be open from day one in September to all students in all year groups.

The union isn't trying to block this. It's never tried to block this. The union is saying that it isn't as safe as it should be and so is asking for more consideration to be given as to the safety measures put in place. That's it.

I understand that the idea of masks make people uncomfortable. Putting a mask on your child every morning before school means that you cannot convince yourselves that everything is fine and you're sending him/her into a safe environment. That's scary! But pretending that the risks don't exist doesn't mean they go away. Saying that hearing or reading something that is scary is scaremongering doesn't make that true.

@netflixismysidehustle

I think that certain papers like to make out that unions asking for details or pointing out problems as being difficult.

They choose to ignore that the guidance is problematic (especially for secondary schools ) and if they are written with heads then it's likely to have less "mistakes" that need to be fixed in countless updates. Unbelievable that there was an update to the guidance the day before 2nd June reopening.

Everybody agrees that schools should reopen but the real problem is that the guidance is written by people who have clearly not been in a classroom since they were at school.

And possibly never stepped foot in a state comprehensive in their lives

Nobody is blocking schools from opening.

In fact, we are all ready to return.

But the message is contradictory. If kids 11+ need to wear masks in shops, they need to wear them in classrooms.

As a teacher, I'm not policing it. If the kids lose them etc then their problem. After this last few months hopefully parents will just sort kids out with masks. I include myself, my 11yo has a stash now to wash and wear.

I’m still amazed that some parents are opposed to a strategy that could help keep schools OPEN.

Yes, there’s lots of guidance but the suggestions for a safe environment is ‘where possible’. I can hand in heart say in my school, that it is isn’t. I will not be able to stay 1m away from your children, actually not children, adolescents and adults (11-18). Your children will be shoulder to shoulder with each other all day due to the rows (better hope they’re at the end near the door!).

The only thing that can keep me safe is the ‘guidance’ and I will follow their isolation procedures very carefully so instead of soldiering in through the various colds and bugs I pick up I will isolate when I get the start of those symptoms. My colleagues will do the same. Your child will end up with a lack of educational continuity.

We can’t SD in secondary schools, we can’t implement regular hand washing, but we could wear masks.

Yes. I think Gav would be shocked if he popped into a comp at lunchtime and saw how it was like pre-COVID Waterloo station at rush hour.

The point is we follow the dfe guidance document.

I would like to know where everyone was when we were going on about cuts to school budgets. Why did the MN army not help schools then? Why didn’t you help when budgets for SEND provision were being squeezed? Where were you when FSM rules were squeezed? In most state schools we can barely provide whole class sets of textbooks, often books are shared between two and sometimes damaged. Art, DT, Music and Drama departments have been squeezed so tightly that things are done on a shoe string.

I really hope parents start supporting their PTAs more and write to MPs etc about school budgets. But then again Us For Them (or whoever) only have an interest in schools opening and no interest in the quality of provision.

I’m still amazed that some parents are opposed to a strategy that could help keep schools OPEN.

Agree. The current plan is going to have kids in and out of school constantly. Will there be special consideration for exams if you're in and out of school all year?

Putting a mask on your child every morning before school means that you cannot convince yourselves that everything is fine and you're sending him/her into a safe environment. That's scary! But pretending that the risks don't exist doesn't mean they go away

That is psychological aspect I hadn’t think of and strikes me as being really significant. Putting masks on your children when being unwilling to admit you are sending them into an unsafe environment would cause massive cognitive dissonance forcing you to either face you’re putting your child at risk or choose to not send them back. If the psyche can’t face either of those options it has to turn to massive angry denial.

It has helped me to understand some of the levels of venom that some people on here respond to rational explanations of risk mitigation on here.

@StaffAssociationRepresentative

The point is we follow the dfe guidance document.

I would like to know where everyone was when we were going on about cuts to school budgets. Why did the MN army not help schools then? Why didn’t you help when budgets for SEND provision were being squeezed? Where were you when FSM rules were squeezed? In most state schools we can barely provide whole class sets of textbooks, often books are shared between two and sometimes damaged. Art, DT, Music and Drama departments have been squeezed so tightly that things are done on a shoe string.

I really hope parents start supporting their PTAs more and write to MPs etc about school budgets. But then again Us For Them (or whoever) only have an interest in schools opening and no interest in the quality of provision.

@StaffAssociationRepresentative 👏

@RainyWinter

There is clear evidence showing that DC do not transmit the virus in any significant way. Many, many countries have reopened schools months ago- the vast majority without enforcing masks in class. There has been no major outbreak in any school, anywhere.

Wearing a mask is uncomfortable enough for a few minutes in a shop- never mind for 6 hours a day in class.

The unions need to stop wailing and focus on how they can help DC catch up after 6 months of lost education. I don't see the unions demanding extra support for disadvantaged DC who will be even further behind after this!

Unfortunately, as has been explained on this thread, this is fundamentally untrue.

Figures from Public Health England shows that there were 184 outbreaks in educational settings in the last four weeks. That's more than workplaces, hospitals, everywhere other than carehomes.

The most recent research, a large scale study, found that children aged 10 and over transmit the virus in the same way as adults do, they just don't often know they have it.

There is no clear evidence that secondary children don't transmit it. There is evidence they suffer less from the virus but it is very likely they can drag it home etc. And the teacher is most in the firing line.

I'm not a teacher, just a parent - I don't bloody want to catch covid.

I'd rather catch in another twelve months when we might have some proper treatment!

@RainyWinter - what do you means the unions are wailing?

Schools do get judged on progress of disadvantaged children - extra provision for them is via the ring-fenced pupil premium fund which at my last school paid for extra English and Maths tuition, revision courses and personal textbooks.

Putting a mask on your child every morning before school means that you cannot convince yourselves that everything is fine and you're sending him/her into a safe environment. That's scary! But pretending that the risks don't exist doesn't mean they go away Putting a mask on your child every morning before school means that you cannot convince yourselves that everything is fine and you're sending him/her into a safe environment. That's scary! But pretending that the risks don't exist doesn't mean they go away*

This is so significant and you can bet the likes of Cummings figured it out months ago and is happily exploiting it 🤦‍♀️

Dominic fucking Cunning