AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/28/unions-call-for-teachers-in-england-to-be-able-to-wear-face-masks

Given that they have to be worn almost everywhere else indoors by over 11s it would be the right thing to do. Adults working in schools have as much right to be protected as bus drivers and shop workers.

So AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

[quote labyrinthloafer]@Iamnotthe1 The big variable on death levels is age profile of cases. 1000 cases will deliver different number of deaths if e.g. care home residents vs. 20-30s in gyms.

So we can't compare deaths directly (although low deaths are of course better).

The vast majority of new cases now are NOT identified as they will be asymptomatic.[/quote]
Exactly and, given that most children present asymptomatically, that means it's feasible that children will be in school and spreading the virus without anyone even knowing it's present in the classroom. All without any distancing or PPE.

"We can, however, compare data on death levels."

The death data includes people who died weeks and months ago and people who had been ill with covid for a long time. The best comparison will be hospital admissions.

[quote Iamnotthe1]@LadyofTheManners
Now, put down your reading material, get off your backsides and go and earn the, frankly unreasonable, payrise you've all been given that we all know the real heroes in nursing should've received and are being fobbed off for

Public sector payrises were proposed and agreed in January. They are not Covid-19 related despite what information the politicians and media are feeding you. Nurses were not eligible for these as they are already locked in to a three year payrise deal which increased their wages by 6.5% over three years. Nurses' wages are increasing this year, just as part of a different package.[/quote]
Sorry but not true. A few pay progression points were removed so that junior nurses could progress more quickly through pay bands. Experienced nurses got 1% a year over 3 years. Not even meeting inflation.

I work in a secondary school. I really don't like the idea of masks in schools and neither do most of my colleagues. Many of us would prefer for students to be in part time (blended learning) to allow for smaller, socially-distanced groups instead but the parents wouldn't be happy with that.

Parents want their kids in school full time even though that makes SD impossible in most schools. But judging by this thread they don't want their kids wearing masks either. So, what protections do people think should be afforded to the 200+ adults working in my school? Any at all?
Because judging by this thread and similar threads on MN, it seems a lot of parents are of the view that since the trial to children appears to be low, schools should begin the new academic year operating as though covid never happened. The fact that schools are also full of adults and that there's no evidence of adolescents transmitting the virus at lower rates is an inconvenient truth many people seem content to ignore.

I have heard very few complaints about the many changes and restrictions that have been made to allow shops, restaurants, hospitals and other health settings, hairdresser's or other community facilities to re-open and keep staff safe. As far as I can tell, the only places people aren't prepared to accept that a significant difference in the overall service or experience is inevitable whike covid-19 remains in circulation are their children's schools.

Risk not trial, stupid autocorrect.

Hospital admissions from the latest data are about 12 times lower than at the start of lockdown and even allowing for the most vulnerable less in circulation than they were then it does point to there being fewer cases now. Cases appear to be fairly steady now especially given concentrated testing will be flushing out more asymptomatic cases.

@KnobChops

Really? That wasn't my understanding based on what I'd read: rcni.com/nursing-standard/newsroom/news/nurses-england-receive-final-annual-pay-rise-line-2018-three-year-deal-159581
But happy to be corrected. That does make sense given that that's what the plan for education is in the future: raise the bottom quickly whilst surpressing the top.

welcometohell I completely agree. It seems to become more and more apparent tha people hate teachers. I understand a bit of grumpiness because the holidays are incorrectly percieved by some to be long, and the days short- but I dont unserstand this desire to put lives at risk.
Some poster will be along soon to say "My hairdresser is working and not complaining and my optician is cleaning every pair of glasses after they are touched- so SUCK IT UP" but its really not the same thing. These other professionals are allowed to protect themselves to the best of their ability. It seems teachers are not!

@motherrunner tracking groups is how I will now refer to my childs 260 pupil 'bubble'

@Sockwomble

Hospital admissions from the latest data are about 12 times lower than at the start of lockdown and even allowing for the most vulnerable less in circulation than they were then it does point to there being fewer cases now. Cases appear to be fairly steady now especially given concentrated testing will be flushing out more asymptomatic cases.

Again admissions lower due to age profile, so more asymptomatic cases.

They are only detecting a lowish proportion of cases.

@Orangeblossom78

I'm not sure, just giving the quote. I have heard there have been cases of teaching staff giving it to each other, before lockdown. Presumably in staffrooms for example.

I guess that in future they will be distancing or not using staffrooms as much. Teaching usually involves quite a lot of meetings with staff etc (ex teacher)

So, you "have heard," and therefore believe that teaching staff have transmitted it to each other? But you don't believe that children can pass it on because some "scientist" who clearly doesn't understand that absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.

How come you're ready to believe one and not the other? Anyone might think you're just making up stuff to suit yourself.

@LadyofTheManners see you haven't addressed my comments on scaremongering. Just ignored them. So you ignore the deaths of teachers. Not really surprised as you seem to want most of us to be one ill.

More here

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-known-case-of-teacher-catching-coronavirus-from-pupils-says-scientist-3zk5g2x6z

So, you "have heard," and therefore believe that teaching staff have transmitted it to each other?

Well if it is not coming from the children it must be from the other teachers....where do you think it is coming from the school dog?

We had a 6th former who was admitted to hospital with it at beginning of March. 2 of his teachers became ill the following week with all the symptoms. But not checked as no testing then. Now they may have caught it elsewhere but it was one hell of a coincidence. But there is no evidence. Like there's no evidence where anyone gets it from. Stupid argument.

With our world-beating track and trace system I am fully confident that every instance of transmission is recorded in fine detail.

Lack of records is all that is needed to make a rock-solid argument.

I’m not sure why anyone would dispute this.

In case any parents do not agree with the mask wearing, you can look at this site, they have information etc and advice, and campaign as well

usforthem.co.uk

Well if it is not coming from the children it must be from the other teachers....where do you think it is coming from the school dog?

Well, of COURSE it's also coming from the children, unless one is stupid enough to believe that ridiculous report. And also from people in the wider community,
The whole point is, that no one has any fucking idea who or where they pick most things up from. Track and Trace even now isn't fit for purpose.

@Orangeblossom78

In case any parents do not agree with the mask wearing, you can look at this site, they have information etc and advice, and campaign as well

usforthem.co.uk

But, with the greatest respect, parents aren't the ones who will have to be in the classroom.

The option to home school is there for parents who don't want their DCs to wear masks.

It’s weird isn’t it, how certain posters are so utterly contemptuous of teachers and yet at the same time so desperate to hand their kids over to them.

I am a TA. I am also a wife, mother of 3 and a friend.
I have a life that I would like to be valued as much as everyone else in this county.
I want the same protection as everyone else.
Why is my life deemed to be cannon- fodder?
I will be working in an enclosed, poorly ventilated space for many hours with no social distancing, inadequate hand washing facilities, often performing intimate care and the government expects me to do this with no protection. Unlike every other worker in this country who is advised by the government to take precautions.
Children can wear masks - they do so perfectly well in other countries.
Masks reduce transmission of COVID - an illness which is causing health systems severe stress, many deaths and many long term health problems.
Children DO get COVID and DO pass it on - teaching staff DO need protection.

I had no idea until the pandemic how much my profession is loathed by the general public. I find it incredible that a swathe of society dislikes us so much that they are happy for us to die in our hundreds just so their darlings don’t have to wear a face cover. Imagine that. I mean, I’m not keen on estate agents as a profession but I don’t want them dead.

I would like to know if those posters who appear to think that teachers are being precious about wanting PPE, are similarly anti- entering shops wearing a mask.
As it is now a requirement to do so, I presume they're complying. So why is it OK to have a go at school staff for wanting similar protection?
And why is no one answering this question - as it has been put several times.

@Armi yet as @noblegiraffe says, they are desperate to hand their offspring back to us. So we are all lazy, useless wasters, but we are the best people to be entrusted to educate their little darlings. Strange. I'd have thought we were the last people who should look after their cherubs as we know nothing. Like how viruses work. And masks effectiveness. And how schools are going to be closed again before half term due to lack of staff. My lovely Dr has already agreed the plans are bonkers.