AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/28/unions-call-for-teachers-in-england-to-be-able-to-wear-face-masks

Given that they have to be worn almost everywhere else indoors by over 11s it would be the right thing to do. Adults working in schools have as much right to be protected as bus drivers and shop workers.

So AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

Well seeing as my husband has several colleagues and students who have suffered potentially permanent life changing damage from catching covid, has students who have very sadly lost family members and a colleague who lost a very good friend I don't think he is scaremongering.

LadyofTheManners

You 'anti-dementors' are more demented than those you call dementors.

@LadyofTheManners

Scaremongering is a bold claim. What has been said that is factually untrue?

@LadyofTheManners dear god you are horrible. 2 of my colleagues are dead. Their children no longer have mothers. And you think I am scaremongering. We have lost a parent too. And have a 16 year old who now needs a lung transplant due to Covid. Scaremongering ? If you know no one who has died then just shut up and don't talk about things that you have no experience of.

Have you seen the creative ways the kids are "wearing" their masks?
Teens won’t wear masks properly therefore I have to teach them with no masks? No. How about they wear masks properly or get immediately excluded in order to keep everyone else safe. This isn’t a joke - it’s a disease that has taken over half a million lives this year. We don’t have any leeway to pander to those who could wear a mask but won’t.

Oh it’s one of those.

And from a parents point of view no way am I putting my kids (age 16 & 18) into that environment either.

@PineappleSquosh

PineappleSquosh. I hope you’re now in a better headspace Yes thanks. Obviously we’re in debt and I no longer have a career. But I’m not afraid any more. It makes me wonder though, if they keep pushing that schools can’t have PPE, how many other teachers will do what I did and just quit to protect themselves? And where will that leave the education system and parents who rely on schools for childcare?

I think a lot will quit or go off on sick leave with stress and I don’t blame them.

It would have been far better to have kept schools closed over winter and set up a robust online teaching practice so staff, children and families were safe and then in Spring look at the situation re return.

Many big firms are telling staff to work from home for safety reasons which says a lot.

@noblegiraffe definitely one of 'those'. A particularly deluded one I'm afraid.

I guess the idea of no longer logging in for 20 minutes a day to post a bit of work copy pasted from the internet providers and then sitting in the garden on a healthy wage is a lot to give up, but the rest of us have managed with no PPE in place.
True colours always come out in the end don't they? I won't reply to anyone spouting this shit anymore.
I have one friend who is working more or less as normal (doctor - mask and visor) and everyone else is working from home. The ones in banks aren't going back in this year. So I wonder who the "everyone else" actually is? There are plenty of key workers obviously but that is not close to his mythical "everyone"

I live in Thailand and schools opened again recently. Everyone has to wear a mask. They turn a blind eye in Nursery but KG (aged 3-4) are in masks. Parents not allowed onsite unless by appointment (handover at the entrance for little ones). Each child (and staff member) takes their own cutlery to school for lunch/snack. Meals are plated up, they can't select from the servery as normal. One way system around the buildings, classrooms have desks spaced out etc. These are mostly governments requirements, schools cannot open without these measures in place.

I'm on leave at the moment so can't comment on the success of this so far, but there has been minimal pushback from parents. Some concerns, certainly, but as masks are more culturally normal here it has mostly been fine. My children had never worn a mask before covid, along with many other foreign children. They've been fine (and they are little).

At one point there were rumours of not being allowed to run a/c and that would have caused a whole different level of stress!!!

You really come across as a smug snob you know OP.

I care nothing for your opinion. I only care about the opinions of people I respect. People who express opinions from a position of knowledge of the subject.

I dread to think how you act around kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, or with learning disabilities.

You are not very observant, I've said several times I'm retired. But the last years of my career were spent working with DCs just as you describe. I was very good at it.

I genuinely would hope you do leave the profession as the idea of someone so rude teaching kids fills me with horror at how horrible you might be to some of them who struggle.

I'm not rude to children. I had endless patience with them.

Stupid adults who should know better? Meh. Not really.

@LadyofTheManners

The teachers in this thread who want masks are disgracefully scaremongering. No doubt the same type of dementors on here who screamed second wave on beach goers. On shops reopening. On VE Day. On pubs reopening. On holidays happening. All of which resulted in no increase countrywide and a few notable exceptions of areas where a language barrier has meant local restrictions being re-enforced. What will you all do when kids go back minus masks and the second wave doesn't hit again? I worry what they will all do when we are all back to normal and they can no longer enjoy mystic meg levels of declaiming everyone as a potential super spreader. Will it be flat earth theories?

Rein in the hysteria.

There will be no normal for a very long time. The virus is going nowhere.

How can you not understand that?

How low would numbers have to be before teachers think it’s safe to go back fully with no masks?

The virus in Scotland is really really low at the moment and while we aren’t getting a final announcement until tomorrow it looks like our schools will be opening fully and I don’t think masks are planned- given how cautious our government have been I would be surprised if they were being reckless now but I guess you never know. If 1 in 13000 people have it and SD measures/masks/hygiene measures are kept in place elsewhere is opening schools likely to be much risk?

@Eledamorena quite fancy living in Thailand. Might look for jobs 😊

@SengaStrawberry

How low would numbers have to be before teachers think it’s safe to go back fully with no masks?

The virus in Scotland is really really low at the moment and while we aren’t getting a final announcement until tomorrow it looks like our schools will be opening fully and I don’t think masks are planned- given how cautious our government have been I would be surprised if they were being reckless now but I guess you never know. If 1 in 13000 people have it and SD measures/masks/hygiene measures are kept in place elsewhere is opening schools likely to be much risk?

However low they have to be to remove the protective measures in other areas of the community.

The reason that people are concerned is because all of the things being done to keep people safe at work, at the supermarket, etc. are being ignored for schools. If these measures aren't needed in schools, why are they needed anywhere?

See I’d been looking at measures in shops, SD etc where it can be easily maintained as being more about trying to ensure the virus stays quashed to such low levels that opening schools isn’t as much of a risk due to the low prevalence of the virus.

Last week Mark Woolhouse, a member of the Scottish government’s Covid-19 advisory group, told The Times that closing schools in March was a mistake in hindsight, as there has not been a single confirmed case of a teacher catching coronavirus from a pupil while the risk to children was vanishingly small

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/coronavirus-in-scotland-vulnerable-pupils-failing-to-keep-up-in-lockdown-kj2k0q9vv

@SengaStrawberry

See I’d been looking at measures in shops, SD etc where it can be easily maintained as being more about trying to ensure the virus stays quashed to such low levels that opening schools isn’t as much of a risk due to the low prevalence of the virus.

In the last four weeks, just under a fifth of all outbreaks happened in educational settings. The only place that had more was care homes.

That's with less than 25% of all possible attendees in schools. In September, it will be 100% as attendance will be enforced.

[quote Orangeblossom78]Last week Mark Woolhouse, a member of the Scottish government’s Covid-19 advisory group, told The Times that closing schools in March was a mistake in hindsight, as there has not been a single confirmed case of a teacher catching coronavirus from a pupil while the risk to children was vanishingly small

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/coronavirus-in-scotland-vulnerable-pupils-failing-to-keep-up-in-lockdown-kj2k0q9vv[/quote]
So all the school staff who have had it got it from elsewhere not school ....

I'm not sure, just giving the quote. I have heard there have been cases of teaching staff giving it to each other, before lockdown. Presumably in staffrooms for example.

I guess that in future they will be distancing or not using staffrooms as much. Teaching usually involves quite a lot of meetings with staff etc (ex teacher)

[quote Orangeblossom78]Last week Mark Woolhouse, a member of the Scottish government’s Covid-19 advisory group, told The Times that closing schools in March was a mistake in hindsight, as there has not been a single confirmed case of a teacher catching coronavirus from a pupil while the risk to children was vanishingly small

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/coronavirus-in-scotland-vulnerable-pupils-failing-to-keep-up-in-lockdown-kj2k0q9vv[/quote]
There aren't confirmed cases of any specific person or type of person passing it on to anyone. That data doesn't exist because it isn't measured by anyone. Mark Woolhouse has not data-based evidence for making that claim.

The data that does exist shows that children aged 10 and over transmit the virus like adults do:
www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-scientists-know-about-how-children-spread-covid-19-180975396/

It also shows that educational settings had more outbreaks than anywhere other than care homes in the last four weeks. Those are figures from Public Health England.

As government departments start preparing for a (possibly imminent per Johnson) second wave and with cases increasing people still insist that teachers shouldn’t have any concerns about going back to school with no mitigation measures in place for them.

Orangeblossom78

That has already been debunked upthread.

Also why would anyone believe a paper that has spent its time since March belittling teachers and reporting lies as truths?

The times has lost many teacher's faith as a news source.

Is that in England as our schools have been broken up for a month, and also cases seem much lower here. I think 1 in 13000 was the last figure I heard. If there are more cases in the community then of course it’s more likely to be a problem.