AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/28/unions-call-for-teachers-in-england-to-be-able-to-wear-face-masks

Given that they have to be worn almost everywhere else indoors by over 11s it would be the right thing to do. Adults working in schools have as much right to be protected as bus drivers and shop workers.

So AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

If they do decide on this, I think schools should be treated like hospitals and disposable masks are provided to schools with the same rules with donning and doffing / 3-4 hours use at a time / disposal bins etc. This would mean it's easier to enforce and not have the issues of providing from home / washing / shoving in pockets for days on end. Surgical masks are also A LOT easier to wear than face coverings (I wear both).

Also - please try not to raise your voice behind a mask. It's a recipe for long term voice loss in professional voice users. I know that may not be a priority currently but aphonia in some professions = job loss.

Yes they should be.

[quote Iminaglasscaseofemotion]@BelleSausage plenty of teachers on this thread have said they wouldn't want to wear a mask all day, or make the children wear masks all day [/quote]
Well then maybe we could get the teachers who won’t believe in masks because they don’t believe in science or want to be martyrs or have genuine reasons not to to teach all the children whose parents think wearing a mask is literally as bad as corporal punishment? They could have their own zone in school and buses and the rest of us will be in masked zones and transport.

We could have a little experiment and see which zones are still running in October.

Bookies would get some revenue

winewolfhowls
Half the class would have a letter saying they don't have to wear a mask due to 'anxiety' which totally minimises the actual struggles of people with genuine anxiety.

Yup and these will be the same parents that excuse their children not doing classwork, homework, PE.
These are the same parents that moan that their children chose the wrong subject so they should be allowed to change subjects (after 12 months)
and these are the parents that will send their child in sick because they don't give a fuck about anyone else.

Happy to be proven wrong if you have the stats.

Do you have stats to prove your point, or just what you've read, i.e Mumsnet threads?

then they don't have to. But those of us that would like masks should be given the choice too.

Yeah, I said that in my first post

I fancy getting classes to write their names on the disposable masks (as I'll never recognise them from just their eyes!)

@DomDoesWotHeWants Teachers and doctors who have to wear them all day are not 11 or 12! They are grown adults who are getting paid and are able to leave their job if it’s unbearable. Children have no choice but to go to school in most cases.
My DD has just turned 11 and starts Y7 in September. She is fine wearing a mask in shops and transport but I won’t want her to be wearing one all day every day. Completely ineffective as they will need to be removed for eating, drinking and sports. No or extremely limited communication between pupils which is vital when you are starting a new big school on your own. How can you learn properly and communicate every day with peers and teachers? Get help when needed from the teacher in class? Feel at ease settling into a new school when you haven’t been in a school at all since March and had no transition or introductions to your new school of any kind?
I don’t give a shit what China or Hong Kong does. We are not China or Hong Kong. We have a different culture entirely and a different schooling system. What is fine and dandy there is not going to be the same here

Yeah parents sending kids in sick regardless should be really really heavily fined. So irresponsible and selfish

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

It's surprising there are so many people pushing for this, yet when you actually ask teachers, the actual people that everyone seems so focused on protecting, most say they don't think it's a good idea at all.

Incorrect. This survey of over 8000 teachers has 51% agreeing that the benefits of teachers and students wearing masks would outweigh the disadvantages, with 39% disagreeing.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion plenty of teachers on this thread have said they wouldn't want to wear a mask all day, or make the children wear masks all day

You actually said 'most', but that's not true.

@Time2change2 then schools will be closed again very quickly.

@mumsneedwine I think some will but the vast majority will be ok and remain open

Completely ineffective as they will need to be removed for eating, drinking and sports
How does this make them ineffective? I (more at risk than most pupils) won't be standing in front of them while they are doing any of those things. They can be eating in a more spacious hall with enough distance between them, which makes it safer to have a brief period without one. I'm not sure how much sport will happen anyway to be honest.

[quote Time2change2]@DomDoesWotHeWants Teachers and doctors who have to wear them all day are not 11 or 12! They are grown adults who are getting paid and are able to leave their job if it’s unbearable. Children have no choice but to go to school in most cases.
My DD has just turned 11 and starts Y7 in September. She is fine wearing a mask in shops and transport but I won’t want her to be wearing one all day every day. Completely ineffective as they will need to be removed for eating, drinking and sports. No or extremely limited communication between pupils which is vital when you are starting a new big school on your own. How can you learn properly and communicate every day with peers and teachers? Get help when needed from the teacher in class? Feel at ease settling into a new school when you haven’t been in a school at all since March and had no transition or introductions to your new school of any kind?
I don’t give a shit what China or Hong Kong does. We are not China or Hong Kong. We have a different culture entirely and a different schooling system. What is fine and dandy there is not going to be the same here[/quote]
Yes we have a culture of 55,000 extra deaths and people who still refuse to act responsibly in the face of that and expect school staff to forgo the safety offered to all other workers because masks are uncomfortable.

[quote hayfeverhellish]@DomDoesWotHeWants with respect then, you have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea what you are expecting of children. I think if you wore one for 7 hours, you wouldn't be posting this. [/quote]
I managed to wear a mask for 8 months, workings 9 hour days (teaching, so pretty active!) in either 40 degree heat or humid weather. And I was all stages from newly pregnant with morning sickness to heavily pregnant. I had to wear one for medical reasons.

And it was fine. Took a week or so to get used to it, then it was fine. My students often wore masks too, some because they had colds, some hay fever and or they couldn’t be bothered to do their makeup.

This wasn’t at all unusual where I lived at the time so it’s a bit of a surprise to see people determined to make it an obstacle.

@noblegiraffe that's quite a large proportion that don't want to wear masks. Do the children get as say? I think that would probably tip the scales.

Did the government survey all supermarket shoppers and staff and make a decision based on their poll results? Or make a decision based on what would be the safer option?
I don't want to wear a mask but I don't want to get sick more.

[quote Iminaglasscaseofemotion]@noblegiraffe that's quite a large proportion that don't want to wear masks. Do the children get as say? I think that would probably tip the scales.[/quote]
Hah, you’ve backed down from ‘most teachers don’t want to wear masks’ in the face of the evidence that they do and are now trying to drag kids into the mix.

You were wrong. Don’t try to shift the argument to something else to make you sound less wrong.

[quote Time2change2]@DomDoesWotHeWants Teachers and doctors who have to wear them all day are not 11 or 12! They are grown adults who are getting paid and are able to leave their job if it’s unbearable. Children have no choice but to go to school in most cases.
My DD has just turned 11 and starts Y7 in September. She is fine wearing a mask in shops and transport but I won’t want her to be wearing one all day every day. Completely ineffective as they will need to be removed for eating, drinking and sports. No or extremely limited communication between pupils which is vital when you are starting a new big school on your own. How can you learn properly and communicate every day with peers and teachers? Get help when needed from the teacher in class? Feel at ease settling into a new school when you haven’t been in a school at all since March and had no transition or introductions to your new school of any kind?
I don’t give a shit what China or Hong Kong does. We are not China or Hong Kong. We have a different culture entirely and a different schooling system. What is fine and dandy there is not going to be the same here[/quote]
Education can be done at home if you believe the safety of teachers is less important than your child not wearing a mask.

@TheHoneyBadger it’s not just that ‘they are uncomfortable’ though is it? It would put a huge barrier to learning in place and would be ineffective anyway. Many teens won’t care. If you think that teens in schools round here would keep a mask on each and every day you are deluded. They would be pinged across the classroom, fiddled with, out on Chins and foreheads and across eyes, whispered and hummed behind, made damp and soggy, make students very lathargic and even more unlikely to concentrate.
I can’t wear one in a shop for more than 30 mins. Feel like I can’t breathe and have to get out. Horrid. I really do salute any shop workers and medical staff wearing them all day but I wouldn’t be able to

If the children got a say I’d be willing to bet we’d be doing blended learning with part time school in half size classes.

It would put a huge barrier to learning in place

Do you know what would be an even bigger barrier to learning?

We’re not in Kansas anymore. There are no ideals. We’re in the world of greater and lesser evils. To me more deaths v discomfort/having to work around a restriction is a pretty easy dilemma

@Time2change2 No or extremely limited communication between pupils which is vital when you are starting a new big school on your own. How can you learn properly and communicate every day with peers and teachers? Get help when needed from the teacher in class? Feel at ease settling into a new school when you haven’t been in a school at all since March and had no transition or introductions to your new school of any kind?

You do realise that by being 'bubbled' and in a single set in year 7 she won't meet the range of children she normally would and communicate with them. She can't sit in grouped tables, but must stay side to side, like factory workers being back to back. She can't share equipment or move around the room. She probably will stay in one room all day with 30 others, who won't be allowed to walk around the corridors and get to learn their way around the building until this is over. They will have limited choices in the canteen and 'wet lunch' is a thing of the past - they'll stay out in the rain throughout winter, where transmission is lower.

The adults have to stay 2m away because there is no other way of avoiding transmission, so she won't be getting close contact help from the teacher; he or she will be standing at the front of the class. The teachers will only be able to give written feedback after exercise books have not been handled for a certain number of days, and your child will receive it days after it's written for the same reason.

It's not ideal, but these things have been chosen to be put in place by Headteachers for safety, so there we go.