Is Layla Moran right that “woman” refers to gender rather than sex?

[Ikeasucks]

Moran (candidate for the LIbDem leadership) was interviewed by Nick Robinson on Radio 4 the other day and he asked her what a “woman” was. Her reply was that woman is gender, an identity whereas female was sex. I’ve been seeing this thinking more and more, i know the dictionary definition is still “adult human female” but meanings and how society views things does change over time. I’m wonder what people think, is woman related to gender/identity or to sex - has society moved on? I’m older, so AIBU to still think woman/female go hand in hand and the correct definition is “Adult human female”

@Ikeasucks

I listened to the interview last night and then read this comment this morning, so how many people agree with Moran

Human beings are classified according to our reproductive functions though, as are other mammals.

@Abitofalark

She wants to redefine the word 'woman' - and presumably 'girl' - in a way that separates it from the female sex meaning. To do this she invokes something she calls gender which she asserts is an identity and hey presto, she has accomplished her aim. I don't go along with these assertions of gender as an identity separate from sex, which I see a lot these days. I don't suppose she's as eager to focus on redefining 'man'.

Just regarding the last line of your post, this is what pisses me off so much, everytime I see this issue it's always about what a woman is and calling women by their bodily functions or even calling women "non men" (wtaf?) Never, not one single time have I seen men referred to as non women or ejeculators or prostate havers...why is that? That's an important question

What are your views on those comments, then, OP? Do they seem impartial and rational to you?

But it should be kept on the feminist boards
That's up to the site owners really, isn't it?

There’s no way men can be forced to accept women who identify as men, that’s why. It’s fundamentally unbalanced. The weaker sex class cannot choose to join the stronger, because ultimately the latter has the ability to prevent them doing so.

I’m not a feminist so why should i have to post this on the feminist board. Maybe i should have asked the FB regulars to let this be a discussion for those who don’t really post there.

I would use ‘male / female’ as descriptors for biological sex (and therefore applicable to any animal or plant) whereas I would use ‘man / woman to refer to human gender.

It comes across as a very political answer where she's trying to appeal to all sides. While some use that type of division between sex and gender (though I agree with pp that feminine is the gender) and will agree with her, I don't think it works very well, that most people would use it that way, or that it's the appeasing answer that she seemed to want it to be.

@fascinated

There’s no way men can be forced to accept women who identify as men, that’s why. It’s fundamentally unbalanced. The weaker sex class cannot choose to join the stronger, because ultimately the latter has the ability to prevent them doing so.

Exactly, which again highlights why women have sex based rights in the first place

Since transwomen are now referring to themselves as female, the distinction is pointless anyway.

I used to agree with the point of view she expressed, actually. There was a point when I would have been clapping along while I listened.

The gender is not woman. The gender is "feminine."

Struggling to keep here. So 'woman' is a psychological state and therefore 'man' is a psychological state (maybe DH and DS's could get on board with this) but how the hell do I communicate with my male canine that his being male is a psychological state - will Clicker training help?

A woman is an adult human female

Gender is a set of stereotypes associated with sex eg girls like pink, boys don’t cry

There are only 2 sexes (people with DSD are still either Male or female)

People can perform whatever gender they like. It doesn’t alter their biological sex

You’re not a feminist and woman is a feeling not a biological reality.

Rightyo then. Don’t even know why you’re bothering to ask.

MsEllany

I don’t even know why you bothered to take the time to post nothing basically

Adult = not a child or baby. A person that has competed puberty
Human = an actual human being, not a horse
Female = of the sex with large immobile gametes that can gestate and give birth.

Remove one of those words and meaning changes
Adult/child/baby
Human/horse/cat
Female/male

I am a woman. An adult human female. I’m not a girl. A child human female. I’m not a mare. An adult equine female.

A question for you though OP: are men adult human males? Or is there similar wafty shit being said about them?

My patience for people who post supposedly thought provoking threads on what it means to be a woman and then announce they aren’t feminists is...thin.

For me it's:

Woman/female = sex
Feminine = gender

I’ll post what I like when I like thanks.

@JustHereWithMyPopcorn

Woman is a descriptor for an adult human female in the same way we have them for animals. A doe is a female deer, a mare is a female horse, a bitch is a female dog etc.

Exactly. Or maybe we should let the females of the species know that being a hen, doe, mare, cow, sow, etc etc is a ‘psychological state’.

A woman is the female of the human species. The end.

Perhaps it’s easier to understand if we use another animal, say a horse.
A male horse is a stallion (or a gelding if he’s had his bits off)
A female horse is a mare.
So, with people,
A male person is a man
A female person is a woman

So both words relate to sex.

Gender is really behaviour, so as PPs have said, can be described as masculine (according with stereotypes associated with male) or feminine (according to stereotypes associated with female).

I’m older, so AIBU to still think woman/female go hand in hand and the correct definition is “Adult human female

MsEllany - i thought i made my position clear in my opening post